Meeting room https://bbb.constantvzw.org/b/arz-o4b-dbq-tjp

Next meeting: 24 February 2021 @ 12:00

In preparation of the final decision on the Meibook building at Pachecolaan 24, 1000 Brussels, we would like to ask each and every one of you (but only those who will join the group of organizations now present on the 6th floor at Actiris to the next location) to complete the following round-up. 

Only with the information you provide below, can we get a realistic overview of which price needs to be negotiated for which amount of square meters. In order to avoid any further Entrakt-like experiences, it is in our best interest to get a clear view on our needs in terms of space and our capabilities in terms of rent. Those who provide the infos for their respective group, please specify on behalf of who you are putting down the info, so we don't overlook anyone. 

You may have already filled out Ben's survey which was rather similar to the questions below, but since it was anonymous, we can't use those answers as a base for the possible contract. We would like to receive your input on the following questions by the next floor meeting on the 24th of February. Please use this notepad and copy/paste the questions if necessary. If you do not wish to share this information publicly, put it in an e-mail to office@overtoon.org instead. Merci!

Katja part of 302
a quiet desk space( also shared)
Around 50 euro

Jesse on behalf of Jubilee: see also Ben's survey. Jubilee is relatively flexible. Right now we have 73 m2 (could be less, although 25 m2 seems a minimum) and pay 522€ (would be good to not exceed this too much). More important than the specifics is that we think it's important to be part of our community - notably the Level Five organisation and dynamics which are an inspiration and possibly a necessity. However, Jubilee's availibity is dependent on the support we receive from the Flemish Community who are changing the art decree now. We don't exclude anything, but after December 2022 the future is uncertain. 


NAME:Achilles
ON BEHALF OF WHO: myself
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 15-20
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 100-150
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):100 or more if needed
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract):100 or more if 

NAME: OSP
ON BEHALF OF WHO: Dorian, Gijs, Ludi, Sarah
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 40-60
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 400-550
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): 20-50
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): 200


NAME: Christina 
ON BEHALF OF WHO: C, Gosie, Samah, Barbara, Kirill
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: we are now sharing a room of ?maybe 45 m2? and this is a good size for this group, as not everybody is there all the time. (If we would be full house it would be a bit tight...!)
very important for us is to have daylight/sunlight, similar to what we have now. 
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: same as now +/-
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): I cannot say
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): I cannot say

NAME: Erik
ON BEHALF OF WHO:Fusion Cinema (Pablo & Erik)
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 20-30
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 200
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):?
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract):whatever it takes, within reason :)

NAME: 
ON BEHALF OF WHO: DAGVORM
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 60-100m2 (depending on price etc)
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 600-800
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):A certain percentage, could be a quite big percentage if it is usable space.
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): not to much, interested in creative solutions

NAME: Puxe
ON BEHALF OF WHO: myself
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED:15 to 25
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 120-150 (important that the space is quiet)
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):-
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract):flexible

NAME: ANTJE 
ON BEHALF OF WHO: myself
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 14 to 20
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 120
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): 5
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): 200
opinion: move as soon & fast as possible, also if it means moving with 6th floor only. contract for as long as possible.

NAME:  Doris
ON BEHALF OF WHO: Doris
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 15 to 25
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: +/- 120 to 130
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): 
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): 200

NAME: samah
ON BEHALF OF WHO:myself
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED:14-20
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE:
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract):

NAME:Greet Brauwers & Raf Custers
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: approximately 25 m2
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 150- 200 €
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract):

NAME: Anna Rispoli
ON BEHALF OF WHO:  Prima Coworking (ca. 15 people)
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: ca. 200m2 
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: ca. 1100€
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): ca. 100€
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): needs to be discussed in function of what work & what we could do ourselves

NAME: aRzu
ON BEHALF OF WHO: aRzu
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: ≈ 12-14m² (something like i have now would be totally perfect for me but not necessary to be two rooms. important for me is that i can close the door and be able to work moderately loud. so please not next to a all day working heavy metal drummer or a all day working, sound sensitive writer! i don't mind working without a window and active heater, so that kind of is a disadvantage i could cope with very well the last two years and is also a compromise i am ok to enter again in the new building if necessary. that said i wouldn't say 'no' to a heater and a window if its convenient with the rest of the requirements :) )
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 60-80€ (ideally not much more then i pay here)
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): 10€/per month (or contribute with a 'service', making sure it is tidy, green, cozy,  pictures or occasional meet-ups and events)
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): up to 150€ (not sure how much would be necessary, there is wiggle room if needed, i think, for a one time set up)

NAME: Eyas
ON BEHALF OF WHO: myself... 
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED:I don't know exactly how many square meters I am using on our floor, But I pay 105€. I will be moving with you without SARA the artist who use the room next to me.
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 105,
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):- 15 €
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract):flexible maybe 50€ :(

NAME: Marialena Marouda
ON BEHALF OF WHO: Myself 
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 15-20 m2 
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 120 Euros (approx. as in Hacktiris now)
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):10-15 Euros (if possible included in the 120 Euros rent of the studio)
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): +- 100 Euros. to be seen more specifically according to need.

NAME: Yacine Sebti
ON BEHALF OF WHO: myself
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED:
25 to 50
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 150-300
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): €50
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): €100-200, more if really necessary

Collective space:
NAME: Wouter De Raeve
ON BEHALF OF WHO: Myself 
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 15-20 m2 
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 100 Euros
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):10-15 Euros
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): +-100 Euros
NAME: Paula
ON BEHALF OF WHO: myself
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED:10-15m2
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 80
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): +- 100
NAME: David Weber-krebs
ON BEHALF OF WHO: Myself 
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 15-20 m2 
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 85 Euros
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):10-15 Euros
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): +-100 Euros
NAME: Mara Nedelcu
ON BEHALF OF WHO: myself
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: about 10 to 15qm with natural light; happy to share a common space as long as I have access to a separate room for calls
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 80€
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): 50€
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): flexible
NAME: Begüm 
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 10-15m2 (happy to be in a collective space again)
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: <85
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): ?
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract):150
NAME: Steyn Bergs
ON BEHALF OF WHO: myself
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 10/15m2 // in fact "private space" isn't even required; a desk in a shared space will do
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: €80
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): €50
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): €100, more if really necessary
NAME: Ingrid
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 10-15m2 (happy to be in a collective space again)
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: <85
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): 
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract):150
NAME: Laurent
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 10m2 (happy to be in a collective space again)
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 50
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): 
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract): around 100


NAME: elli
ON BEHALF OF WHO:the post collective
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED:15-25 as now, shared with marialena since we are not using the studio everyday
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE:100
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S):  20
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract):not sure if we can help with the investment financialy now but maybe in the future.

NAME: Marilyne
ON BEHALF OF WHO: Francesca and myself
HOW MANY m² OF PRIVATE SPACE REQUIRED: 15-20m2, a desk each in a happy collective space 
HOW MUCH MONTHLY RENT FOR PRIVATE SPACE: 100€ for the 2 of us
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON COMMON SPACE(S): 
HOW MUCH €'S WOULD YOU BE WILLING/ABLE TO SPEND ON ONE-TIME SPACE SET-UP (wall structure, in case of min.3Y contract: not sure, it depends on what has to be done, and what we can do by ourselves

---

Meeting 22.03 at 12:30: https://pads.domainepublic.net/p/Hacktiris_Future

Meeting 15.03 at 12:00: no notes were taken?

Meeting 24.02. at 12:00

Network info: a lot of work to do for cabling on 3rd and 4th floors
Francois feedback: place is ok. Some work to do but it's ok.
Jesse: Which floors are we talking about? (Question bracketed for later).
Christoph (Rispoli group - has been in WTC before) feedback: Joined  because they have to leave their Molenbeek coworking space in April. Pure office space. Possibility for them. still looking for different options but highly interested in continuing the conversation if there is space for them.
Marialena: A Lot of work to be done in terms of building walls but we can stay for a long time so it is okay. It seems legit. Not a clear view of the financial part so hard to say right now.
Marilyn: Convenient for an office space.
Pablo: Space looks fine. Better state of building than the one we are in now. Even better than WTC. Carpet even easy to remove. Quite versatile even for visual artists. Convenient location, 10min walk from the center. It ticks many boxes, we'll probably not be able to find something similar in  the time that we have. 

Doris: I agree that there is work to do in terms of building walls, but that would provide us with more wall space as well which for me as a visual artist is very interesting. It seems safe, we enter with a badge again. Location is great. Ceilings are a bit low and not sure how tollerant the rest of the building is towards art practises and if that's a problem or not. 

Charline: There is not really that much going on in terms of alternatives. This is the best thing we came accross in the past weeks if not months and everyone (from our floor and also the 5th floor) has been searching constantly. We should take this into consideration. 

Antoine G.: Looking at possibilities. Looking for a place where we could bring some machines, something like a fablab. That might not be possible in a place like this. Still has to contact his 'base' to see if there is interest in such a space. 

Ben: Really likes the building, the spaces, location, price etc. Interest in restarting the cinema on a bigger scale. Need public space for this, if  level 5 would join that would be very advantegeous. 
I.e. that means that if level 5 does not join DAGVORM would probably also not join. 

Charline: How do we take the next step, how do we shape the decision making process? Responsibility should be shared by everyone and not by Overtoon only. Overtoon needs imput on how they round up this possibility. 

Jesse: I couldn't join the visit now but someone (Julie) of Jubilee joined and is enthousiastic. She does mention that the area is object of a gentrification plan by the city. Do we need to pick between specific floors? I need to understand this better to know what we are talking about.

Arnoudt: There is 1,5 floor available for us. There is a price for this and XM2. 1400M2, has to be defined what is the amount of personal space and what is the amount of shared space. That is the discussion right now. But first we need to know how much space we have in terms of how many people are interested in the space. 

Jesse: Level5 has a waiting list of 150 people looking for studio space. 
Remark about public space is interesting. Is there the possibility to rent part of the ground floor? How would be the situation in terms of security/badges?

Ben: Every floor has a badge. For a cinema it would be nice to have the door open in between certain hours. Also for a galery or bookshop (as rile* in level5)

Jesse: what does Rob think? 
Charline: For some people its good, for others its too officey. But everything  stays quite hypothetical. What about the basement? What about this or that? Its a very circular process.

Jesse: but this could be part of the request we make to them, no?

Charline: Ground floor (?) is occupied by St Louis school until end of August. There could be a possibility for us to apply for the ground floor from September onwards. But they won't be able to give us the same deal as with the 1,5 floors for 6000 euros. If we make an application for the ground floor, we have to come with more money. They always say that we should make a suggestion. 

Ben: People with desk based practice can already decide to divide the 4th & 6th floors and then the people need the ground floor, wait for their answer. 

Arnoudt: Now we can have 2 or 3 floors, but for a different price. we need to make an offer.

Charline: They are willing to give 1,5 floors for the price of E6000,- if we want more we won't get this price. I think they are stil hoping to find more mainstream renters for the other floor. So if we want additional M2 we will have to pay more.

Marialena: Does this also have something to do with how long we stay?

Aernoudt: This might be. It is only until we make a proposal that we know about the rule of negotiation. 

Jesse: We could try to do this with LEVEL5.

Ben: We could do that and try to make a good proposal. They might be bluffing but we don't know. It's Corona times and the building is empty.

Pablo: They are not even not making profit they would still have to pay taxes as well.

Pablo: Isnt it in our advantage that the groundfloor is only avalable from september and we would have to start paying from september? Considering the Covid situation. 

Jesse: What is our term with Entrakt? 
10 weeks, ie. 2,5 months

Charline: Should we go for it, or stay here and try to find something else before august. I don't think we should count on Brussels political level.

Jesse: We should try to make the best out of this situation and make a proposal that is very interesting for us. Even if not everyone is enthousiastic. We shouldn't let this slip.

Charline: I suggest we take some time to think about it. We would apriciate some very specific imput from you.
If anyone has a concrete suggestion please let us know, we would appreciate it.

Arnoudt: Deadline? Proposal by the end of the week?

Charline: Suggests Monday for a deadline.

Arnoudt: Does communication with Level5.

Jesse: Thinks Level5 has a basis of a proposal to negotiate. 

Charline: We will check.

Arnoudt: Question for Antoine. How much time do you need to get back to your community and give us imput about what your needs are?

Antoine: I wouldn't count on by the end of the week, that's too short notice. But I will try to have quick interaction with them and speed up the proces. We are not in the same space right now so that doesn't help. I will try to have feedback on potential interest by the end of the week. I can't promise anything. There seem to be a lot of individual interest for different spaces but there is only one contract. So that's a big issue, who will make the  contract, who will manage the floors etc. I see that Overtoon is not necessarily interested to continue the management. Sees that already with the people that are in the pad, the 6000 euros are covered. 

Meeting 10 february 12:00

Agenda:


Arzu: for it - needs closed off space - seems like with seperation walls we can create that - would be nice with level5 - what's the time between the move and settling in? Possible to get an arrangemetn where we don't get too much pressure - general vibe - as soon as possible away from entrakt - to get out of this situation as soon as possible - possible to not have a gap of two months. Like the idea of being part of a bigger community - Arzu would leave earlier, but will follow the group (can't afford to have a gap personally). Would like to move with Level5, enjoy the community feeling and connections in the building, but its not a condition.

Jesse: With Jubilee we're looking forward to move with the collective, don't care when. The Meiboom building looks great especially if we could obtain the entirety of it (perhaps using Artist Cooperative Brussels as a mechanism), and create a relatively independent community of artists. In that sense, a non-commercial landlord would be more interesting, perhaps.

Sarah (OSP): looking forward to move with the group, with or without Level5, early or in August, both fine depending on the conditions. Important is how long term you can stay in the Meiboom building, not to move again soon, have moved many times, but still the energy to move with other people is still there. Meiboom looks great. Maybe better to move before summer (or at the beginning of summer) because otherwise less people available for moving / building up.

Pablo: the same as for Sarah, would like to move with the group. He will be available for some manual work.

Eyas: ok with moving with the group and ok to move when the group would like to move but concern with the possible time gap between moving from one place to the other.

Constant: we would prefer not to move with the big group to the new building, a bit tired of the moving for so many years and of the hard conditions (mostly in Hacktiris). We want to pull out of the gentrification scheme of using artists occupation of empty buildings as part of investment schemes. 
 Would like maybe to move to a smaller space with a smaller group. And the need for bigger space to organise workshops, worksessions, etc... will be always there. Future collaboration with the group/space is still possible/nice.

Christoph: they will move in iMAL with a smaller group, but would like to stay in contact / exchange with the group.

Charline: important infos to take in account: 
- we have to give 10 weeks notice before leaving the building; on the other end the contract has not being respected in so many ways by Entrakt...but let's stick to this rule anyway, just no to encounter problems from them.
- Level5 would like to stay in the building until August. They don't trust the Meiboom site yet. They would like to deal with them to be able to get better conditions and for that they think more time is needed. The other question is: do we want to move with Level5 or not?
- the landlord of Meiboom wants to rend a non-commercial fare (basically renting less square meters with a loss because of tax reasons), but if Level5 joins (so more square meters) then they would probably higher the price to a "normal" rent.
So it is possible to move without Level5 (actually better in terms of price). So difficult choice. Waiting for Level5 could mean loosing the opportunity of the Meiboom building with no certainity to find such a big space with them in the future.
- in the Meiboom building lot of work is needed to divide the space etc... no money to pay a company to do it for us. we could try to move the walls from Hacktiris or to buy new ones from Rotor.
- concering security: in Meiboom there is security but not 24/24 like in Hacktiris, the access is made ia badges to access the main door and the elevator. 
- rent in the Meiboom building: 6.000 € for 1 floor and 1/2, xxx square meters.


- Sarah( OSP) will contact Mia and Ben who builded the walls in WTC, to see if you are available again.

People present are ok - important: common space will NOT be freely accessible - it's a trade-off that needed to be taken to unburden Constant.
Constant will put new lock in the door. A copy of the key will go to Overtoon.



3 Februari 2021, 12:00

- Visit by the VGC commission of Culture Youth & Sports (Jesse?)

- Running through financials: rents vs Entrakt + questions (Charline - 20')

- Post-Hacktiris: presentation Meiboom (Ben? Aernoudt?)

- Christoph (& Dimitri?) take five minutes to explain their move to iMal and the availibility they might have to offer (5')


- Other ideas for buildings and task division? > next meeting!
- Hacktiris business model + discussion > next meeting!
- Cleaning corridors - (Only fix a new date or is there more? Doodle it? 5’) > next meeting!

Next meeting: Wednesday 10 February 2021, 12:00

January 27, 2021

Common map and webpage? - (Ludi 5’)
- Add text and updates reg. room nr. and their inhabitants to the new pad that Ludi will send us. → http://pads.osp.kitchen/p/hacktiris6

Water damages in Antje and Constant studio - (Charline 5')
- Constant would like to leave asap, but only if rent for floor goes down, i.e. not pulling out of the collective payment.
- If that's not possible/consensuated, we will keep paying but would like to move out of this corner and move stuff to the common space. It seems people in the meeting are ok with that.

Entrakt - (Charline? 5’ + discussion 10')
- Entrakt wants 6th floor to pay extra costs. Overtoon in a reconciliation situation with Entrakt, a moderated conversation at the peace court. 16 march. Also in contact with Kunstenloket.
- 6th has paid rent so far (so considered a good renter). If this goes to law, we should stay in that state (maybe)


Proposal to pay the rent to a blocked account (ludi) but (ben) it is difficult to convince Entrakt of that, probably.

We paid a deposit 11000 -- it was transferred to Entrakt!! (and not a blocked account)
The amount they say we have not been paying, is around that.So Charline does not think Entrakt will ever pay back our provision. 

The time when it was too cold (because the heating did not work) wasn't counted in this.
Proposal: to open a blocked account, and stop transferring to Entrakt. It will be hard to get the money back 11.000

Lawyer says: everything needs to be in proportion. As soon as you use a space/service you need to pay something.
If we stop paying today for instance, we should leave tomorrow, so I'd not advise that. 
There's a misunderstadning on the finances, there's the 4000 we pay each month for the rent, 5000 provisions, 10 000 we should pay extra. 

Constant would like to leave but find themselves between two impossible situations:
-Either they leave but then part of the collective rent will remain unpaid
-Or they find a subrenter for the space, but this is not possible, as the space is unusable
- Possibility that they use the common space provisionally?

So far there is:
Damage to the space
Damage to materials
Possibility of another flood.
and Entrakt doesnt want to deal with those costs.
It feels very unfair, it's about that. If nothing can be done then that's it. 
If lowering the rent is not possible, it means we need to keep paying for something that should not be paid for. 
We'll do it because we don't want to leave the group in difficulties but we want to signal that this is not okay.

Is there a possibility to lower the rent, when we don't get what we have signed the contract for?
In the contract there's opposite things; statements that protects us but then other ones reversing these protections. The contract is so unbalanced and contradictory that Entrak used it for their advantage
(it is a bad contract)
Basically we don't have a rental contract but another kind of contract ('bezetting ter bede') that allowes Entrakt to exploit us.

What should we do then? It seems like we don't have any leverages left. 
We have held bakc 11.000 in provision, almost.
They charge us for 2020, 2021 12.000 so we are in debt, they can force us to pay that.
the plan is to do the procedure, and if that does not work out it will be a courtcase that will take years.
as far as the costs go, for the courtcase ... we rather pay for the courtcosts than to pay entrakt.
that is the long term plan.

Should we secure the money, open a blocked account?
It is now informally 'blocked' on Overtoons account, should we formalize this to not make any mistakes?

How deep Overtoon wants to go in this? Trials to make it as clear and legally as possible which is great but we'd really like to leave now. 
Charline will inform everyone about how things are going, and we will meet soon after.


Post-Hacktiris - (Small update by workgroup (Charline/Ben/Aernoudt 5’)
Ther are some directions. City dev Pacheco side is off.
Aernoudt contacted Ixelles Anderlecht. No clear plan for Anderlecht. Meeting with Elsene happen today at 2pm. Charline contacted JLL. 2 buildings to visit tomorrow.
Two simultaneous tracks:
1. Political support. Municipalities etc. 
2. Reaching out to big corporate ... Big Immo Offices!
Professional big estate plateforms, they seem to be more responsive.

Two visits coming up.
4000m2 
searching together with level5
How sure are we, that everyone on the 6th floor wants to continue? We propose a round, and what would be the role of Overtoon?
They can continue, but how and something has to change -- it is not sustainable.
share management --  this one was horrible, but next time a different way to manage. Dividing responsibilities. working groups. Stimulate pro-active participation. Interest in how level 5 is doing it. 

What is the lenght of the contract for the next buildings to be visited? Not clear yet, seems negotiable. Bigger, longer = cheaper.
Potentially 1-2 years? The prize is a question, what is going to be included?
Taxes are an issue. 

(Other ideas for buildings: discussion 15’)

Hacktiris business model + discussion

- Cleaning corridors - (Only fix a new date or is there more? Doodle it? 5’)