>poussydraama.mp3


 the tent in transhackfeminim - calafou
WHen i was for he first time in calafou, and i met gynepunk
 i had a lot of knowledges on gynecology and i didn't know that
i always kept it for myself - i was they gave a impulse to  develop and transmit
i was an artist and people invited me in Marseille, 
i put myself a bit seperate not too public 
and i  prefered to see people one by one and not all at the same time 
and i inveted a docteur, a personage, with a kabinet of curiosity, and while i was creating all of this, i was pregnant and i did an abortion with plants.
the night before the performance.
all the energy that i didn't want to put in the pregnancy, i put it in the personnage 
everything was very clear,  a lot of things came together
i already read before about abortion and I took l'armoise and it worked
i was in euphoria, epiphanie totale,
i loved it
and in the beginning I was a bit to open, 
it was open to everybody, people were speaking about sexuality 
some people stayed for an hour
we were drinking tisane,
i had some  anatomy images
and i was understanding what the people were saying 
and all the intime personal issues they were talking about i tried to recontextualize it   politically
via a simple thing as an anatomy draw
that was a bit this that was happening
after i immediately stopped to receive cis men, because it was too hard for me to listen cismen speaking about sexuality
it's for that we spoke more about sexualoity then about health and gynecology
in the beginning i listened a lot and i talked from time to time, i absorbed a lot
people were speaking about horrible medical stories 
it was like hallucinating because 
i never spoke so much with the people about that
not the same than with firends
the personnage was so positive, colored, and the people were going away with a positive feeling and me i was more and more bad
it was a freestyle
they already projected a lot in my charachter
i had a van, it was my mobile cabinet
there was a whole univers that  they could hold
to my images, my words, it went in all directions
sometimes it was about a specific problem, somethimes about plant
heuuu le supreeeme, le rumstek c'est pour moi, claire on peut avoir de l'eau
c'est andy qui l'a fait pour nous 
( we are served dinner - cooked by and ask claire water)
peut etre que l'anglais c'est mieux pour plus tard
bon appetit -bon appetit
et toi tu as pris quoi?
une sorte de mozzarella tomates
 an lsd 

m:did you have zines? 
p:yeah i had some zines, and a lot of documents - it was also a place of resources
m:people give also resources ?
p:yes but we will go there ... i want some salt 
m:les carottes s'est quand meme chouettes 
(testing the knife-for the recording)
m:you had this bus, the transutérus van
p:yes and i wrongly managed this 
it wasn't forseen
(crack crack salt)
Alll this diificult stories and i was giving all the tim
and the circulation of the resources didn't work, with the character of the doctor and for me it was not that but it was this finally
and it put a lot of distorsion, a lot of articles, .. but super far away from my reality and which reenforced a visibility just to be more requested
but it didn't give anything back
i was receiving messages every day of people that i didn't know and they were speaking about their problems without saying hello or whatever
(exple of a zine in which is mentioned not to contact the author)
i opened too much the thing as yes yes contact me yes yes i give yesyes it's for free
you see...
because i was in this energy fom the beginning
but i was soo... and after i stopped also to do this one to one and
beter to do collective consultations, auto-examniation workshops, basic self-care workshops
m: more related gynecology ? because we are wondering about the self care most of the time around that
pd: it can go to mental health care but i was less requested, more difficult more subtil to put in place in the context where i was going 
a: you mean that you wnated to go there?
pd: yes i wanted to go to this axis but we were always coming back to gyneco
pd: yes self care is really associated to gynecology
i was going to artistic place to gain my life and i was also going to other context without money like planning familial, aletrantive contexts, where i felt more understood, people knew where they were going
planning familial in the city, from the state minor or not, contraception to see someone, always people paid doctors.. and an associative part with activities, and it can be super or not 
in france, a bit away but majority in france
after i did also miniconference about witches and in theinstitutionnal, artistic context it started to  be a bit difficult for me of my energy and it was so trendy to talk about witches,.. and i was really not ok with that  because all the time that i was going there, it was a lot of discourses were produced but the people who are witches and want ropracticewitchcraft doesnt have their space/place and  when they invited people like me, i couldn't practice also, they didn't let me practice
a lot of discourse

you asked for basic space as not too heat no too cold, a carpet on the floor 
it was alsways complicated you had a white vest
i earned a little money
i din't ask too many questions, i just went
but i felt to do this character central, vertical and people where coming , they took a set and they waited
i had some costumes, also a blue vest
than i had the impression it wasn't me anymore
- a unifom- and i decided to do more discussion with the public
10 - 15 people that is nice but sometimes you find yourself in more situation of a spectacle
    people where going before to a show after to a show, but me what i wnated is that we all sit in a corcle and we talk , for ex what is the sefl care ? self help? 
    and we were talking about that with people who have no concern with this subjetc
    there was always strories, like disput with the director of the theatre while i was doing this thing, political reason, 
there was a woman who left crying, ... stories
in my personal life,  i was in depression, but i wasn't accepting it yet 
and i had always thta feeling  between the artists invited that i was doing the most and i was payed the less
un talk+un workshop+...i was not economizing myself
the other one was putting play on a video and had the same money
i couldn't stop, while it was not working but at the end i stopped, a little bit
one year that i stop talks and workshop
but on the other side, i havce a lot of people who are asking me fo thesis, books, 
and i have nothing which is really published because i wasn't very satisfied of what came out
i stopped to answaer to journalist because articles weren't ok
artoicle yes gynecology diy, poussy draama travelling around the world while i had no money, someone was paying to write in new york about me

it was like the third dimension
Fannie Sossa? in barcelona we did some workshops for teenagers, same demarche
it was great with teens
that oi saw once
fresstyle workshop dance,  anatony, sex education,
we were too crzay for the social centers we worked that they didn't want us to come back
pratique and knowledges?
book's project for children,

the video i made with fannie existed already before you came in calafou
before the doctor
no energy
 to come back
 i regret to be not directly communutarian i was strarting more from my artistic point of view 
 in  the workshop, when i had less energy, the hetero who where taking to much space and i could handle it, and i was questionninfg who takes advantage of what i am doing
 who has access to all this ?
the question which come back now is more about self care- self help and the people who do research see that they come back too people who ae all a bit in the same enivironment

it like a priviligeg? yes sure
t is a privilige like having access to certain medicines

i also found out that around diy gynaeco, there is a very essentialist movement
sacred women,  it is hallucinating

in diy gynaeco groupe en france it was mostly driven by there ideas
we opened another group more inclusif for others 
there is alot of knowldege but with a doubtfull cultural appropriation
it is really big, 
no resepect for other sexual identity, 
tu vas baigner ton utérus 
it was interesting to see
that is the entrance door for a lot of people

so i wanted to connect with some professionals, i have a good friend midwife in paris - sonja
she is the only one who announces on her website that she also host trans people and does examniations for them
in france this doens't really exists. there is few practioners
it wasn't so developed at that time, now it is changing
i was invited to a wk workhsop training with two midwifes, that i didn't know really, and it really got bad, horror, my friend whihc came from paris went away, i went away and i came back for the closure

i had trust in the person ho invited me, she in the meantime transitionned, and i was realluy feeling good with her energies, 
we had mostly contact by email and when we met for real i felt something bizar
she was practicing for her patients gyneco autoexam and she wnated to share that this with other professionnals, the thing really privileged 

the people who came where completely fucked up with political articulations.
so when we were discussing, it was a problem
the first day, autoexam, auto formation sage femme auto organisée pour des sages femes
sagefemme= between nurse and doctor  - delivers the baby
she follow up they gynaecologie, can also give the medicines,...
i wanted to be connected with medical sphere and after that i was not happy
she never contaced me/.

After i met more the plants, teh 1th matter and for the moment i want to more concentrated
m:for you or to transmit?

i hade some mental problems and plants saved me, 
and we will make in marseille a plot to grow
i want transmt but maybe just have place where people can pass by is already fine
all what i know wabout plants and wild harvesting plants  iwant to transmit
But idon't want goups to come one time to plant something together but more like people who come for a more duration lreaning process
or people who do apprentiships or peopel who follow programs to come back into the labour market or pedagogy with kids/school/

the personage ego has to disappear/.
jardin ,agriculture, what are we going to do.. is it important, or is it ridicilous
no future but qometimes i saying to me no it's really this 

let's do it but i sit possible climatoligical/envrionmental
do i have the nedd o be all over and hyper short.
I want maybe more to have trees, who can grow even if i go away 
i want it to see it as a safe place
we have to majke the jurdical structure
i also have to finish my fomationwe are looking for one place 
i don't speak about that now because it's starting 
m: mentions flatbread society - bakehouse + grainfield * > the herbanist make a herbal garden - and also creaed an economy -  startup
losaeter /  critic : heteronormativity / neofolk 

 i'm studiying urban agriculture, i studied a bit the economy - and i know that people in france who have little herb farms, can not really survive easily - they don't get paidwell
they are all a bit remote -  in the villages - family nuclear hetero - two incomes  but also quiet priviliged
    
     it doesn' interest me to go to countryside and produce for people who already have access
     my urge to go to the city to involve 
for a public who doesn't have access to this

a: there are people who doesn't have access to this in the contryside 

my sature would be complicated, i am now in a school of the state and that includes a lot regulations and certifications

------------------
desire to share my knowledge with my different resources but i never found someone with who to do it 
__________

i did some workshops and than people wanted to make collectives - and they existed sometimes for shoirt time

dessert
tarte citron
fondant au chocalt
glace
cafe gourmande
crumble pomme
on prend deux fondant meme si on aurait aimé une panacotta coulis framboise 
____________________________________
on relit les notes de cabiria
pd: bouquin sur l'avortement, collectif anonyme, une personne de bxl m'a contacté, traduction d'un fanzine anglais, manuel sur les plantes abortives, superbe illu, petit livre serigraphié, couverture noire, dorée
s'armer jusqu'aux levres, collectifs qui n'exitse plus
i have a lot of fanzine that i can share, yes 

marthe parle en ndls

rodrigagniez, nous accoucherons dans le plaisir
maria jopiz, maternidates subersivas, en anglais aussi, tous types de maternités, parentalité

à bras nos corps, collectif bxl,
our bodies, ourself, 70, rédité une version,
____________________________________
andy arrive, il sort des cuisine, il est invité à continuer à faire la fete,
he is asking if we eat well
pd: ask if he put something in our meals
he is drinking a liqueur de citron
fresh - like a lemon icecream
___________________________________
speaking about soussa et twerking
marthe for her the food was good, too much attention on the voguing 
pd: didn't wanted to take the place to share that alone
m:you was supportive more than the representant of the voice and that is the collaboration
pd: calafou was really a context of exchanges, and there was things who was saying who was not true or people was writing that it was me but it was her 
she write a thesis on that 
m:video youtube on the pussy super good , it was in a political moment 
pd: you know that this video was quite professional without money. this video became super popular 
baby love your body, about pussy and consent who was also for children /parodie
m:it's all the name for your pussy
pd: we wanted to do something that doesn't transgress anything on youtube not to be censured 
after 24h, the video was on some websides that i even didn't imagine
big success but aslo a lot of remakes with comments  
600000 views it was hallucinating
we were not conscient how focked up people where. There is no nudity, and there is no kids but we speak for kids
the people treat you badly
ouiiiiiiii
we advance seriously 

pee dee: in the radical self care, i have more questions than answers

how can this practice be more collective - community based
how can it become structual, durational.. because it always is very short term
the energies are mostly individual energies or little groups 
personal thing ? more people ? no we have to be more suportive between us for people who need care 
not isolated

je sais changer une roue de voiture mais je ne sais pas me palper les seins 
moi je suis lesbienne et je ne sais si il y a des mst entre lesbiennes
difficulties to speak about that 

magnetisuer passe la main ne te touche pas, mets des pierres, elle faisait des concerts, tambours, 
bioenergetiseur avec un diapason
apres il y a mille 
moi je ne suis pas formée 
auriculotherapie - graine de moutarde
https://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-grinberg-method.htm
gestalt thérapie

a:this is radical?
i had medicine and also you put un clou de girofle if you have pain in your tooth 
i was also questionning if i go in china, for a MTC 

radical self care is important also about space, how you communicate with children
how do we listen when we talk

i have a old fanzine pour une autonomie en santé, at the begining i thouht it was punk
it's about a dancer and how the body react and how is reacting
how when you put a tension somewher in your body, there is a liberation in another part
how to treat the sickness with this base, it's asking a lot of practice and it's really interesting
how are we treating the body when the body is 'healthy' and there is no pain and everything is ok, 
is something that i saw a lot, we are looking for someone when something doesn't go well and we are not informed
people come when they have a problem

I liked to do the speculum, when i had nothing 
just to see what is happening inside.
looking to your 'throat' - 

so how can we live with a virus, cancer, with something which destroys the human body
in symbiosis - ? how to accept

do we need to defend human biological  ?
e.g papiploma virus - hpv? it is on the cevix  if you look you can see i, otherways it is the doctor who see it first, you can treat he candilome... with vinegearbut he docto will propose laser therapy and.crisiotherapy
take a piece aways....sometimes it is neceassy sometimes not and that is super invasive.
it is associated with i can be come a cancer.. it becomes monsteruous ... but actually it it banal it is like a virus
and it is how they communicate or we think about it it has to do with the business, 
the research and he development of medcines and treatments.

discussion sur le prep -
it is a way - and a huge debate - i don't know 
i like it because a space beyond reality -  dunno what to say.
it is quiet communutaire. it is about a  specific community

why don't we live with our parasite?
it is emotionelle /

bedbugs are becoming resistant

radical self care
not why
but why are there profossionals and non professionals
and why do we want to be taken care by these professionals

- self care (mental health-how do we treat ourselves in the militant envionments activisme.; collective)
- self help > health /  you are already sick - dysfunction.

self help - it is different imaginary
in the goups we made discussion we made schematics and we were talking a lot about it.
And e.g is brushing your teeth  // is self help, very basic. it is vey anchored compared in how we take care. 
it is important ....some are institutionalised
and what do you do if you don't have the basic mental health to do this very basic acts... 

i feel like shit, you feel like shit, it is a website with a questionary https://youfeellikeshit.com/
if i really feel bad, i go there, 
it is an interactive game. it focuses on (eat, drink, sleep) + emotional personal mental help
that is radical self care
i like it and also to share it with others/

m=my body my soul....

a question  /  self is it you or is it collective, community instead indvidual.

a: for me  it is not important to be around people who share the sickness - i don't need to hear  all their personal stories.......??????

self-help is connected to a second wave femisme ( prriviliged", white) it evolves in certain environments it is very embedded in the liberation of the white woman
due to this history it is is difficult for trans, colored people to enter ... also the loss of traditional knowledge, the legacy of the witches and the traditional medicines is intertwined.

In other envionments , societies self help is obsolete, as these knowledges are transmitted orrganically so it is not artificial. 
the shaman, channel ot pass, the sicknesses and it is beyond the glorification of the self
i didn't do ayewashca because i never found an ideal envrionment to take it.

what is cultural appropiation .? 
cermonies, microdoses. they all went fine.. but is reduced to the self.it is a bit in realtion to what i tied to tell about the sacred feminine
You take something and it is about 'me, to feel better', me sentir mieux
you take an ionic egg -  it is rock, precious, jade, .. it is expensive,  and you don't wanna know where they are coming ( it is a big subject - even for plants)

m: I am interested by collective identities - there is no reality, it is quiet discursive.

care - / self care / a lot of  theory , 
gender in the care, how to give care for everedy day care 
how do you care ** how do you give care to others. how most people give care it is a lot of feminine, domestic labour.
the help to eldery, ... it is a social reproduction.
people who give care, first care, in the institutions, are women, it was/is always gendered
subordinate postions in the medical care


personal, polic, anecdoctic-
- collective body is existing
glu > Emily King - hacking with care..; we did somethings together.

i really like....eveybody who works and talks about the touching 
 the link between the indicuvidual and collective, on a very physical layer.
maybe we just need to do a cure
 
 We tested a worm cure ahahaha
 
rock/ heathy diet (protein à global food) vegan and you discover the contrary of the local food and it's a dynamic not good

persone who did a personal cure:
 calafou : spirulina
 la loba loca / http://www.lalobaloca.com/#
sharing practice. online 'formation'
latina-los angeles, queer, non-binary non-binary
the legacy of the food : traditionnal food as corn
public event, us we pay more to finance people who has no money,
i really like how she is haring, she was also a lot in auto-examination
how she integrates her poltics, is really nice

'other wild' https://otherwild.com/

pd: i do alos some products, small quantities, and it is for that that i go to school, to have a licence, because if i get caught, it illegal pharmacology exercise
attack by feminists on internet, because they were saying to me 'yes essentia oil in the pussy it's super dangerous, we are going to tell to medical order, délation 

m: medical denonciation amsterdam https://www.kwakzalverij.nl/
pd: charlatan (hunt)

le vichy regime :ordre pharmacien/medecins/surge were created and at the same time they forbid herborist 
ordre des medecins is still very protective towards the doctors even if there is violence, harrasments,...
midwife who did develery labour at home were denounced, pass in front of a judge, they are working without insurance (more high than what they earn in a year) and they are super afraid, so if there is one problem they go directly to the hospital, but it's really rare, and it's never the family who denonced. it's really internal to the medical order.
lobby pharmacist

and the pregnancy is not really in the lesbian world
why the aborbotion and pareent hood or the delivery birth is not more talked or questionned in the queer world? 

mary magik estrogoene ?
i don't understand really what she is doing haha
i dont think that she is really trying to do oestrogene, it's more artistic  - clinical level but more like artistic

housewife on drugs
http://maggic.ooo/Housewives-Making-Drugs-2017
 is a fictional cooking show where the trans-femme stars, Maria and Maria teach the audience at home step-by-step how to cook their own hormones.

spela petric - not a lesbian  - https://www.spelapetric.org/

(m:andy ca s'appelle comment ici le restaurant ? 
andy:La cocote felée, it means crazy chicken
speaking about le perche, bretoncelles, forests, boat
andy nous paye à notre bouffe, il prend ça sur sa paye)


> gaia.mp3   44:07
 
looking together at the table of  critic Germanic New Medicine-biologie totale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryke_Geerd_Hamer
 
endo  (intestinses / organs) - meso (brain - black and white substance) - ecto (skin, ..)  derma 
--------
feeling alone in the world > carcinome 
-------
patents - copyrights or in medicine ...... like in religion ...
------
medicine is good in the mechanical body  but on the physiology or biology  'unknown'
more advanced in male body
 
" we need a search"
Ovaries >  AGK p38 p27 - 23? 
left or right  ?  SX or DX ? 
this map is...
ah, valle
 
conflict with some lost- daughter, friend, lover, animol...
part of mesoencephalo
some lost
mix  with...
you start to do .. it is not an active conflict, he past
your organ starts to do processing this lost
do you identify ?
accept
 
i dont know if i read good the map 
 
 
The conflict starts in an other place, 
the conflict is another one
the final process of this medicine is cancer/.
 
left ovario connected with right part of  mesoencephalo
you can understand when it comes
 
(pouring a drink)
if you do applause - right of left?
(clapping) 
if you start to move with which leg
if you use right part you are left brain.
 
don't think, you start to do.
 If you use right part, you are left brain.
if you use left part, you are right brain
 
left part for the process of emoxion.
 
Neurobiological > left : is the artistic part
it's also a reduction
it is an antropocentric vision of this. It takes in consideration my self, mine ombellic   ( my belly button)
 Start to study this kind of medicine just for do  the contrary
To do some  construct critical.
(pouring a drink)
( not an easy fomat > looks like a  ...
it depends of what kind of the statement of how was your ovario, is in necrosis ?  cancer? is in ovulation? is cysti?
it comes fom the right part of the the brain ? did us loses - dogs? lovers?
on the time that it was developping
maybe it is not the loss that you give a lot of importance
this the analysis  introspective 
 
It looks like 'an insert'
(closing the big map)
a lot of people buy this stuff
 
i have a lot of critical of the medecine
we have fear of the death
in the inquisition of the religion it is the same
 
fear of yourself - of your human body - 
there is plenty of vision of the after life
 
i don't do differrnce between men /women body
here we are speaking about the secret women in the vision that the women has the powerfull of the 'a modeo'
why we always see the women mother of nature, it's not true, it is some religion we have
 
At one moment we are super compromised with our culture with the structure ofthe teaching we have, 
super difficult to get out of this stament. We don't have the material, knowledge for theis . 
We have induction of the culture. It change in the historical moment
now it's the genetical moment - medicine in genetic
10years ago 
the pharmacological, for example
the biology doesn't have the answer for the physiology of the body of human
a lot of factor in interaction or the process to do a list or map.
it is impossible
one body  is not a statitical body - we do statics of the sick, science, medicine
it's really not true - It stops with materiality (claro)
it's the same when you want to say i'm a man or a woman, you cant' say this, it's impossible
the hormona change the statement of the body of all your life
do you know something about menopause?
 
It is the change of production of hormona. I have no idea to feel the body
i know you start to do produce less progesterona, you stop the menstrual cycle, and i,posfesteon is one of the oestrogena
i think you can start  to do some experiment with testosterona
 
what kind of operation? 
take away uterus and the whole reproductive apparatus, uterus, ovaries
now i'm menauposa  - 
(hahaa si haha)
not natural but anticipated one
do you take hormones/ ? no, because my hormone feed my cancer
i cant' better take some plants  the plants you normally give is to produce hormones
not true, i think you have an other production of hormona as thyroida,...
 
hormona are in your fat , brain, skin ( i am  not sure)
we have a lot of different kind of homrona, feromona,...
 
they take an organ and ty to focalize on one organ - and it is mostly not 1 organ.
Now I still have to take 1 medicine,  maye it will reappear... it was also in other parts in my body, there was metastase.
Now I still take medicine... Why their thinking is blocked the carcinoma (the sick cell)
the pharmaceutical industry is experimentation on the people
it's 6years that they are experimenting on my body
how do they know - they need to pay to do this - they use you to put in their statitic.
 
It is superviolent?
 
maybe they are saying to  Simplify also the situation  / they are playing with the fear (timore)
I don't like medicine because they doin't explain YOU. They just say do this and tomorrow you stay better.
When  you fgo down and i lose the connection - unconsiousness -  my brain/ after it was the hearth
doctor want me to take pillule to control the pressure in my bloody because if i have more pressure, the dirty is running bad
i don't took this fucking shit
physiological heart
 the doctor said go on internet to read.  i have a degree in biology - we can speak in terminology - i don't wanna losse time to explain you
 i took the book in bibliotheca and i start to read the book of medicine
limitation vision of the physioliuogic
a lot of terminology, you don't understand nothing, they speak in code, and .. 
fantasy
science is fantasy of some people/ not the mechanic one but i think the physiological one, is a fantasy
oliver sacks is a neurobiologist /https://www.oliversacks.com/
he works a lot with people with hallucination
he has a good book
and he describes  a  belief with the women  who has a cerebrale tumors, in last step of the survivor
in the wood, aaah please save me save me
to go to lourdes, and 3 days after she doesn't have cancer 
if you believe, 
m:it's connected to a ritualized moment
the power to live
(ritualized way for transgressing..)
vipassana- people healed after
going to the pain  with your mind
 peyote in peru
a: Believing and power of survival what you ...?
g: i don't believe in nothing of medical  - fucking -
m :  if you wake up each day with the fact that you was not suppose to live,  or with a death sentence
(clap to kill mosquito ?)
a: i had 6 months now we are 6/7 years later
g:  it super strong when they say that live in the wood  - probably you are an exception.
A:the doctor doesnt believe it also operation a super strong one
we will open and we will see , and do
we can offer anymore medicine
g: the last stuff we can do is open you and take out
 
We don't know, Maybe we take out something, 
maybe we take out something,maybe it get wrong, maybe you have complicatioons
m: it seems you were already reducing it before operation
a: forr me it was , with all the people a round me, the me oit was the right moment for my ight moment with my body/
trsuting the doctor, believing there was something mystical happening also, 
it was probaly the anestesia
hahahahahahahah
ketamine is an anestesia.
when you are feeling the process -  it goes good, it is the question...  if you have the feelling and vision and perspective  in running good. it is okay
You will never and with the normal/normative medical is more hardly
it is super invasivo.
-- it was that  moment when i can came to make the delay --
and now the delay is not working
yes because all the power was with me
 
the homrones makes you crazy.
you feel the difference in the emotions, and state of emotions / hormones/
hormones makes you crazy - when you are in the ovulation - before the menstruation, you have crazy moments - more intensive
i start to fell it also
whaat?
the emotion
 
i remember a friend - she still has the uturus but had a problem with the ' tri....
 
maybe the cholera . more explosive
 
(lighter is not working)
 
super physical expeience 
have super hot
yeah i know this - a woman i know - 
a women she has 60 years, when you are in menopausa, you open the window in winter
 
they took everything away it's not natural, it's more stronger also
the transition
a:i am still loking for plants... 
m:maybe start to start taking testosterone, to start to go in transition
g: your body change but maybe it's more equalized
 
m:maybe you lost your feminity  
g:this for sure. *
a:because i wanted to lose my feminity your cancer developped; ( not a animal, mother, lover) maybe you wanted to leave your feminity
 an oprees for crave for testosterone
g:now you have obligation to do it now
a:i was fighting with my feniminy when i was young
m:and you start normativly to adapt you to the society
g : my body says i want rebel. i want testosterone
you go to do analysis of level hormones./
special material/machine.
 
m: i asked my father - my level was low
is important what time you do examination
my g-father always my doctor, so i never had doctor.  He is know retired. I don't really know what is a doctor.
I normally was going to study for dermatologist because i also had a lot of skin disease.
g: and what happened.
Also my uncle who was dematologiust coming to spain to uplive his gay sexality - later died of hiv.
 
g: your operation , is in academic hosopital - all the layers
    
a: 
they don't listen what you are saying
they dont know anything about you 
they are reapeating the same thing since i'm going there, are you taking medicine besides the one that we give you? no, i'm not taking medicine anymore since i'm diagnosed
they don't listen to what you are saying
 
our body 
my body is my body - running to my body - isn't a statiscal body.
 
I try  to make music for video games
I don't wok anymore in science - i am very tired. 7years i study science, it's super fake all 
I come in the conclusion - it is super fake all what people  are talking about it i ssuper fake. Social statements. We lost the  pleasure of the study science  without the scope
 Scope to the evolution of the animal to ....   change climate to the body. i started to see some kind of social approach of the science 
is not pleasure of style or experiemented
i see in the statement of biology  and in the laboratory - the people don't know what they do, they just do 
it's just this part that they are doing
the process, to amplify the database, more time.
 
 
the gentics is a bad phase of the science..; it is fake...
Genetic is  the god. it's not true,  I read The ego of the genes, Dawkins : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene
 
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis  vs egogenetics
   
Lynn margulis: she is brilliant critic.  The gene can't be egoist. It needs a cell, for live, running, duplicating himself. We can  talk  symbiotics with a cell, one cell .. to another, it's a complex organism
it's not just one cell or one 
genetic dna, is a limited vision.
so now they start a new era with the
(so they can control there physiology)
 
 
am i genetical heridatry.  > test  to  see if you have or not . Huntington - degenerative sickness
 
procreation of the species.why?
from the moment that they diagnose someone in the family, they 
my father is diag, so they come to the children to know i- To see you have or not
the first quetsion that they ask is tif you want children or not 
If you can transmit the malicious gen  -- that is normative
...


thea.mp3

tout prés d'une rivière
on va a l'ombre - pour le petit déjeuner
bruit des sauterelles
wind
on ne sait pas encore comment on va aborder ce sujet, non?
miaulement du chien urban surexcité d'être a la campagne
 
cévennes, the inhabitants who installed themselves here in la borie
some feminists cameFnina
question of habitat, all was interested women health and gynaecology knowledge and reappropriation of the knowledge 
some peope had experience specialities  in different fiedls
 + naturopathie+ harvest and transformation of plants (tincture, oil,)
10 people + some of the region / formal weekends with a lot different  themes  - 
each year - a practice + there was a herboristerie in la borie+ they made macérat
exchange on difficulties, prejudgements, a priori and our constructions  + hosting
personne réferente 
knowledge medical physic +  also on gynaecology - sexuality 
eve (from la borie) knows better
 
mobilisation of the group with an hostiptal in Alès
there was an accustaion of a gynaecologist who had a past of harrasment and rape
he is still working there offc ourse.
The hospital is the nearest in the region, alice also went there when se broke her foot.
(cracks of crackers)
So they try to mobilze people do sit-ins, and inform the people
they were rejected of the hospital
and they start to collect personal stories not only rapes, but a lot a lot of harrassement of people in the cabinet (color, trans, not french speaker, lesbian...)
they wrote a leaflet, quiet extensif, 50pages, S’armer jusqu’aux lèvres, https://infokiosques.net/spip.php?article1318
(link with bretocelle /cabiria)
self questionned, what happen when you went to the gynecologist, requestionning this moment, not a lot of people with who to share
maybe you felt violated, but you don't have a lot of envrionments where you share about these things and there not really no alternatives,
why people stop to see gynecologist?
take a step back with your experience,
to desacralize knowledge of our intimate body - being woman.- which are more in the knowledge of men - to restore this realtion.
PechBlenda: Anarcha-Betsy-Lucy  slaves used by some experimental scientist who  found the gland feminin and are named after them
violence-racism
group stopped one year or two
always here in the region but places with not a lot of people-more intimate
thematics- to give a central place to each one

(burning sun-looking for a lighter)
(marthe has a backpain - she activated by sleeping in uncomfortable postion while sleeping - thea propose some swimming)
 
one or two year the group stopped
choices to make when you start a group /take in consideration when organizing collectively
closure of a group - when 5 years active it can become quiet internal, 
with this group, there was attempts to relate to other groups//
 with Nina Rissim - suisse woman - autogynaecology wiht pkants - she talks about menopause, sexual transmissive diseases
no postporn (sexual exchange)
it stsarted more out communautarian (health) care - to share and live together, with the desire not to go always at the doctor/hospital  - surrounded by herbal plants which 'work'
how to give to the others the methods?
 
auto medication - relation with identity politics ? - reproduction -  mostly gynaecology
 
man,here in la borie more in relation with their power - so they put alcohol, javel
or girlfriends finally take care
 
delphine, was in group in Brussels, à bras nos corps?
2 people - come to train here, in belgique/ suisse, a sort of formation so they could bring back what they learnt to their localities.  
theatre action- invitate in festivals, planing familial
 
herbosterie exist still? with the eviction makes it not easy to have a sustainable practice. there is stress, we can not survive
a lot of things disappeared
question of how to host people with confusion, pain,
there is still some plants,
marie she know better she still lives here,
she has a baby and she has more questions around birth - not so much in lesbian environment- but nowadays it comes back more and more
a little network started in the mountain, two gays give their sperm since some years, first only one and after the two of them
FUNNY - they call the babies of doliprane, baby of the yoghurt pots because the straw that you use is the straw that you use for the doliprane for babies and pots de yohurt is because of the container 
 
the center of the  anti-psychiatry  - https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernand_Deligny
psy-philosophes-
gaia and psychosomatique, disease is not only your physical body
autoexamination goes in that direction, to open on these questions, it's an evidence,
i have a feeling that I or occult the realtion to my body
occulter totaleemnt relation à son corps mais les regles viennent reveiller le fait qu'elle est connecté
interface with her body and exterior, 
thea is occulting this existence of her body, but for exemple the menstruation re-open that she has this body
it seems i have no access, no realtion really with the inside,or the outside. I am in the middle/.
That is when the question of psycosomatics arises.
 
your body as a machines of organ
or as 'place' of mental health
 
Here , because of Deligny, there where some goups
 
La Borde was a hospital - psychiatric - psychotherapatique instution  
There a care takers ( soignantes) and soigné ( to be taken care of). 
All these people followed together some talk groups,  reflecing groups, ...
the only difference was people who was paid or not.
the research was completly shared - it was intellectual but also care
et La borie
is it always places which can disappear, internal conflicts or no money, or difficult to continue with your personal story
 
is it a concept  ?  because in some gelocatilties there is more an urgency.
because we have not the instruments... *  or they are in the hospitals.
poltical ugency?
 
in la borie - it is a survival, refusal -  some did it good or other's not.
 
(stones are fine - marthe re-positions - a beach with sand is proposed.)
 
for some people, they feel that is good for them to go to the (psychiatric) hospital, but for some others is there that they start to twist.
here in la borie, it's not a place where we say the hospital is not good, but it can be a passage or possibility
if you don't wanna go we will propose some alternatives
 
we know and we have a lot of stories that  the medicines  super trash for everybody and the medicines make damages
 
there are some people who travel between these institutes and know the medicines and their secondary effects, 
some know what to do when  you feel a crisis coming up.
it is in the encouter, this is place of hosting life - nothing is formalized
it is an orality - somebody talk, somebody listens
The time  - ( a week, some days,...) here we can meet, and and this rencontre, we can have personal transmission, which are quiet unique, there is an osmosis between the transmitter and the receiver  
here in la borie: esapce de vie, esapce d'accueil de la vie,
le temps amene les rencontres et la transmission de savoir
si ca devient formel ca devient totalement autre chose
 
there is a kind of osmosis, you go to what you need,
if you tell to 15 people at the same time... that is different.
explanation with the technic for the boat
 
here is not a queer place, no definition for the place,  i just 2 or 3 years that there is something more open to the queer
but a festival last year, plouc queer fest - pride a saint jean du gard (village next to la borie)
geniaaaal
the pride a pris tout son sens
in the beginning we were e a bit 'mal à l'aise', with all the hunters, and villagers, but after there was a climax where we were topless, crazy
workshops during the festival, open to everybody, no mixity also for some of them 
 
we go to do a tour? we heard the donkey / there was a dead horse
there is something special between animal and human
during the festival rhinocerose, there was a lot of people antispecisme
it is about the non - hierachies between speceis 
 
rhinocero s(e) la grotte de chauvet la grotte de chauvet https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grotte_Chauvet
 
it is like all about countering the hype on unicorns, rainbow, ...which got capitalisation and liberalisation.
contrepied plouc et non commercial de la licorne qui est un symbole du capitalisme
le rhinocerose a completement disparru de notre imaginaire et on voulait le faire revivre dans les imaginaires pour le refaire exitser, 
the animal who has been evreywhere, also here, revival the imaginary/
there are a lot of trans et queer - but  they are also a bit dissapearred. and we wanted to make the rhinocersoe visible again
the festival start also: i was working in a farm (elevage) - 
pousser à l'heterosexulité des animaux qui ne le sont pas à la base car chez les chevres, brebis, il y a beaucoup d'homosexualité
des chevres refusent de se faire prendre par le bouc et ont des rapport qui different de ceux du groupe, plus meneuse ou leadeuse ou plus solitaire
we are not vegetarian because we have no meat, here we eat what we have around - but some of them hunted recently
 
you have leaders, followers.
the society to breed and the human society is based 
(a goat approaches and eats everything besides the recorder)
 
(after swimming in the river et while we are preparing some pasta)

la rue et l'armoise
(the dog collect biercaps)
abortive
vermifuge
la rue: abortive, not so much used, but rediscover with Rina Nissim, some friends tried to abort but it didn't work and they were just  sick by poisoning
and a friend who made some harvesting, knows in marseille, a epicerie with a marabout-guerisseur, chez ali, rue d'aubagne, 
he is known to be 'rebouteux', community healer, he was looking for 'la rue' because it was difficult to find. so we harvested here in the cevennes. He normally imports more from asia /africa.
He told that the women in his community still use 'la rue' , these practices ar inhouse and it works
and there is a hypothesis that it's not only to have the substance but it's work with an environment and which makes it efficent, and this environemet is an environeùent of women who has this knowledge 
probaly it is essential for the the medicine to work 
 
applause * which side right /left > reference to gaia
'go' is calling to have some 'self care' advices  
 
is  the medication efficient because of it's community surrounding...
maybe even with orthodox medicine it works because there is a whole community and authority around who beliefs.

le monde medicale est investit d'une croyance et d'une autorité
 
alternative vs orthodox
stengers - nathan -  /  Doctors and Healers - by Tobie Nathan & Isabelle Stengers (Hardcover) Review   - ding ding dong collectif
requestion the how of the power of the orthodox medicine  that is scientific with all his pretention have entered modernity, th eothers are pre-moderne
so the book begins with what are witches/healers ....  and is la rue 
witch, is a sort of 'modus' where you get out  the evil / pain   is in direct relation with th eindividual and it's psyche
it is more something exterior. 
 
there is some body .. and somebody bewitched 
the personal  /// historic and relational
( the neigbours,  the close people, family) reconstitution to each and everybody)
 the communiuty healer  heals the bewitched - by its cultural and social links and context  (it efficiency of the medicine)
 this system doesn't exist anymore in occident
 
charlatan
 second part: stengers,  event that happens beginning 20th century - when the society of man, bourgeois, medical authoritarian
which destroyed systems non dominant non male, different knowledges ( like in other parts of the world)
in the construction of the medical power, the question of charlatan arrived - it's somebody who heals and who pretends to heal (which is actually the same thing) 
with methods which  can not be calculated by the scientific procedés
but  at the same time they claimed to the scientific and medical authority the power to exercise on 'its behalf'  (charlatans also want to be recognized)
e.g  Mesmer - he was a  magnetist he heals people round a sot of (baquet') . He healed a lot of people... So  Is he a 'witch', and he was curing people with a certain belief - with a ceratin social catergoie  >high class, and poor people
A bit of eveybody. They try to look for a protocol to validate or invalidate his practices. because he was putting in danger the medical authority.
At that moment they tried to establish a protocol of behaviourisme, it is scientific protocol - you have a substance - witness - and a  placebo.
(Comportement)  
 
Ex nihilo -  in laboratories, on samples
there is a construction of scientific protocols and of rationalism -  the it all constructed
they achieve to elaborate a protocol to invalid the healer as a medicine, the systeme sorcier 
so that is how they constructed the charlatan; it's not a sorcier but a healer who wants to pretend to enter in the caste of 'doctor'
As long that this protocole allows them to invalidate these practices as non-scientific... 
but this technic heals a lot of people  t
in the orthodox medicine is not  to heal but to impose a knowledge, thought, philosophy which is validating the medical modern world. 
the result is not to heal, but to impose a medical modern world/
 
in the orthodox medicine, le resultats n'est pas de soigner mais d'imposer un savoir, une pensée, une philosophie qui soutien et valide le monde medical moderne, dans sa globalité
medecin et sorcier
 
 
catherine markstein, brussel
40 years of experience - ( she is a nurse/doctor at the base) and she made a lot of goups, workshops in particulary with non mixed group to  speak about menopause
activate  of 'being' better ... 
discussion of personal experiences, without going in clinical specifities.
does it still exist? i want to go
 
 
i have for 6/7 year a ovary cancer. (stage 4) We will do some chemo for 6 months, we will see if it works
I always went to the hospital and followed what the doctors said but also looked and experimented with alternatives to heal.
I take the medines they subscribe but for the secondary effects i don't follow the treatments with dafalgan, buscopan, that i don't take.
i am always split betwene thse 2 medicines
 
 
I was in a treatment fo 3 years which didn't reduce the metastases but stabilzed my tumor  but the pharmaceutical industry stopped
I am always in clinaical studies, they propse something new, they let me sign a paper, i am an experiment for them. A ovary cancer i sn ormally for older women (60-70, I am young, more resitant; i ahve a different acceptance to the pain, as other patients, I am a bit strange in that world. I was the last one which resisted the treatment  ( inital group were 40 people) But the pharmaceutical labarotories has stopped the medicine because it wasn't financially viable for them
 
 
So It stopped, there was nothing else. My specialist  propsed me another treatment, but that didn't work And in march they just proposed me to operate in the next week. During 6 years he repated me this will be the last call; and a week later he operated me in full stress, AUh.  but also with total acceptance that i wouldn't work because it was everywhere ///// ../ It could end with big complications or with or to have to cut my intenstins, end woth a shitbag e.g. I envisoned all possibilities aaaaaaaaah. 
 
Finally they were able to take everything away on the macroscopic level on the microscopic they can not assure, it can always awake. I read that everybody get's born with a cancer and that some people can develop
and others not. It is there it exist. ..... heu. so they removed the repoductive system and i am in menopasue, but not a natural menopause aso  more intense -  because the removed it in one time and you have to deal with it and now i find myself with some hyper trash experiences.   I have intense 'warmth attacks' ..  It is intense  and they confirm that it ois because it was removed acutley - and i can not take what is prescribed for people with meno pause - because these medicines rrecreate female hormones which feed  the cancer. 
eeeu hh
So i am looking 
gaia proposed to inverse the process, and suggested to take testosterone and i told myself maybe that isn't a bad idea.
 
-
Thea- Yeah, It is always a question of imaginary
mother, grandmother all died of a breast cancer
and worked on me and  my sister called and she found a ball in her breast 
it give a sort of high and it is difficult to talk about but if you have boops it seem s you arr femininine; and it is a sort of heavy weight/
and if I would have a breast cancer,  i would see it as as solution of the liberation of a feminity
 
ahh me too; ( euh sory i let you talk)
 
it's like a magical act - i will take testosteron
and i wil have another life,
 
we looked at this enormous paper - abx36, ovavry cancer left - i tried tolook where it comes from, it is not genetic, and how do you accept it -  and on this paper it just talk about a loss, of a lover, some family member, an animal, and maybeI want to loose of my feminity, and  it is a ovary cancer and that these men have taken it away.
i always didn't want to have breast, i wanted to be not feminine. ANs yes you have to accept - i am a women so i have to accept  this feminity en i was always rebbeling and now i am  thinking why not ta take testosterone.  and why don'nt try what gaia was saying. 
marité: you think the female hormones 'empirent' le dynamique.
i think it is the femine hormones which feed/ or 
ah it is not both? no
and it is  quiet hard to know and how do you research, even if you talk with your doctors on essiantial oils , they don't know wha it is
 
 
 
to have his imaginary with them is almost in impossible
it is not possible to have this imaganiry with them  but me in my experience and anlysis, this imaganry has more power, more than the cemical products.
and the question of homepathy it is proven scientififically that it doesn't work, and in the meantime it works  ... it i slike the charlatan  (they were recognized)
it was reimbursed by social security during some years/
there are doctors who practice both
but in that idea everybody is a charlatan, the doctors also are charlatans
and what concerns the hospital - when they have to accompany my gandfather ( we are not going into that)
everybody proposed something which can function scientifically. we don't know anyhing like also the doctors and with the medicines  like with molecules we swallow, why this molecule works on this.
hey make trial and erroros and   - they sell mais they don't know the reason why it works/
in an administrarive
if this question to take homones in big quantities,  it is challenging the chemical risks like a chemotherapy is a risk, a chemical attack on the body
... if you decide to take testosteron....or this idea that testosteron wouldn't devlop a cancer of the breast
did you see the documenturary on the masculine contraception? diy, lifting toulousian balls, a male gang profeministe who decided together with there feminist friend in the seventies   decided to develop their own contraception on their bodies - not wih condoms -  the first thing they found out was to take an exces of testosterone  you become sterile,  thatw orked well for a long time They put testorne on he skin in a gel and it passes through the skin.
it worked they made spermogrammes/.
It where heteros and when their skin rubbed againt each other , the woman also took testosterone and that resulted in growing hairs.
and the women didn't agree
afte they found out that if they keep the balls inside the body by pressure, it also works. They talked sincerly . It were man whoi really talke to each other about their body. One was farmer and he was on a tractor and he tried to keep his ball inside - around 37 degrees, you also became sterile/.for them who  it also raises the question of the great riders....
they made a  speciale underwear. who kept thge balls inside.  the famous ' remonte couille toulousain'  
it is funny <so in he documentary they talk also with some toulousian doctors, VADE RETRO SPERMATO 
what is virility ? each generation there is tiny man's grip who do it it exist for 40 years, but they are scared to loose their virility.
as a guy can do practically everything - jump on an elastique -- he doesn't fear, but wearing a underwear which .. your ball, that is more diificult.
this is where i learn that testosterone in excess that is enough, just a gel.
 
 
 
for people who have been diagnosed d' endometriose, the testosterone is advised -- euh no it is on eof teh others progesterone
i ask myself what is the difference
it is not produced by the same organs, it hasn't the same effects on he brain and there isn't just three, we are full of hormones and bacterias
m : on n'est un bain d' hormones
thea: ther is was here somebody 2 years ago that you should contact. - a friend of... ell habite paris. She was diagnosed a cancerof the pleura (not of the longs but intestines). She got a number and she was told that to follow some prcodure and she exploded but she was told to follow or in a year she wouldn't be here anymore/. She opted to change her life, to leave paris. She dind't wan toi have anything to do wih these analyses/ She is writing a comic book
 
A: i always followed the medical protocole.  here is always some fear to say Fuck/  how you see that others are being treated, and you are a number and they are angry if you are 10 minutes too late, while you are waiting a whole day to get your medicine and after you get medicine that you have to take at home and you come back a next time and i is the same questions. And is about 6 year that you tell me that i don't take some medicine ( buscopan /dafalgan) it is against pain and pain in th ebelly. 2 traditional medicines.
 
There is also Nathaniel who has devleopped a lymphatic cancer. - the fatigue - there is some metastae in the leg.  The parents, Her mother has ............. / a person who is minor can't efuse the treatment. Othetways you have to go in exile;, and she thought of going to latin amercia. She did a great work but always fighting avec the ones taking care to arrive that the moher wanted to treat her in dignity and not this trying to look to all different hospitals,  in parallel with other care methods and they multiplied the chances of healing by mixing differen medecines ( thay did reike all over the world)
 
a: my operation which was always targeted. and i always said it was the ultimate  - everybody around me shared that. My body was ready for this operation. it was hyper serene. I chose for it. I know there where people who were hyper pesent. There were people who hugged a three, made some tramme and people who were thinking with at the other side of the world. And also the doctors know - the ones who really follow me ( not the students who don'tknow you) they were hyper present for them it is an experiment, and i still was there a month ago and there are doctors who where excited and where presen during he operation and they are telling how they took everything away and how it went well and easy, it wasmagic. how they closed you
And you were there but you didn't live that way, you were sleeping. 
And he doctors before the operation tell you they are going to open you because they don't know , yes you do scanners but they have to open you to see. I also have a need to see, because it is also abstract. I need to see what they removed, my reproductive system, the liquis, la tumeur. They took 7 litres, metasasyc liquid.   MY long was,   squueezed by the liquid, hey took out 7 liters, in th ebeginning of the diagnose they took out 2.5 lires, and came back each time,  It need to be reclosed and recauterized/ bacuse it being reproduced by your cancer
marité: and this continues.
a: noooon,  thay were sucessful, it is quie magic, crazy. they were able to take away everything, theu closed the pleurus again
i think for the doctors it is quiet magic/. When they  potentially also invest and belfief beyond their technical acts ( they also don't have space to talk about this)
and i remmeber befor we habve met that here we know you ere going to be operated. You don't know maybe the people, bur we are in relation, with each other.
 
(marthe wakes up from a nap)
 
magazine jef klak - en ligne - article sur hunttington
online magazine, arricle on huntington
i talk ed to marthe about it
i have 1 on 2 chanches to be diagnosed. we know allready know for a longtime it is in the family
we are 5 generations of doctor in the family
but he never wanted to do the test, i understand a bit why,
he stopped his practice 
he was a bit afraid to do some medical mistakes
the symptoms got  worste and i said it for 10years and now it's the children who needs to do it 
the testing  is quiet linked with reproduction also - because when you go to the genetic department, there is also a whole psycological assitance
they want to have statistics
and it's what gaia said why are we not paid for that because at the end you are a case in the statistic
at the end, they say if you want to have children, do the test, and if not, they are less insisting
at the end, you can be prepared soically,  architecturally, environementally
my father now, is not getting worst, i did some walks with other people diagnosed hunttington (yes you are supportive for him in that) 
even if you think about doing the test to be more  solidar
but whe you know, you are in some evaluation of yourself, you can see the symptoms  it i scomplicated
they say also when you are tested and it's positiv, it can get worst the signs
it become a trigger, you let go (the sympotoms)
it's strange because during these walks, you can think it's this person or this one but at the end its not, so it's strange how you do the evaluation by yourself. there are a lot of different foms
the most difficult it's the personnality changes it is inherent for humans.
it's a degenerative change in the brain, it can be people with a lot of anger and the shaking
Alice knew dingdindong. It i sin France . Fabrizzio Teranova was showing a film he made about Hutingon , in Brussels so we went with the whole family
It is a different approach/ Dingdong is related in academic, an artistic world ..; 90% the public was composed but a lot of hipsters, or young people who came for Isabelles Stengers or Ta-erranova who have no idea)
thea: it can be violent to be there
marthe: It questions  genetic disease, there is no solution you can't do anything
(eating melon )
thea: in their group there is a ...... it can be hacked
marthe: i bought the book, and yes i'm interesting to build up a group around that 
in the film all the people allready did the test/  do you really wanna know, because it is just one of the gentic diseases (alzheimer)
do you want to know? 
at the beginning i was no and now i'm yes because it's always related to the reproduction, and i think it's strange
a: if you have children you can pass it on
but i'l also interested by the bio-hacking, and because i have some certain praxise, so maybe you can have a certain leap which can resolve something also for other people
it can be encouraging to develop a praxis around genetic diseases.
thea:question of diagnosis, if you are the carrier, it can potentially develop  - i don't know wo much
marthe: it will develop
t: in ding ding dong you havee a women with her sister and they are  face to face to a doctor. the doctor says you are the carrier and this will happen but 
how can you say what will happen to me? she blocked on that and the doctor always repeats himself, teh doctor stoips because 
the question is something esle, the question of how to work around or escape from in in one or another way from the symptom development
the fact that you are speculating on something, this makes it exist. 
 
on the meantal disease and diagnosis, in the history, they change and they evolve, because  the diagnostic
DSM= dictionnaire de la santé mentale changes with cultural footprints
it exist mental diseases in some places and in other doesn't exist for ex: l'homosexualité doesn't exist aymore but the transgender or transsexulatity yes 
or before, the schizophrenia, 'trendy before, now it's less, they diagnose other mental diseases
For exemple black people in UK, are more subject to schizophrenia, because in their live they are developping more schizophrenia because they develop more violence to survive
the way things are told collectively can really have an impact/influence
e.g Dingding dong est aussi là dessus.
 
t: with your father you talk about it?
 it is my father so we aren't in big conversations 
my mother went in a mental crisis and now we are talking more about her  than him
my fathe changes completly - he was working all the time - now he try to mange an house
i'm more in emotional conversation, suddenly
i feel he is vulnerable  he islotaes a little,  but  in the meantime he take steps towards 
try to socialize in an environement where people confirm that he has physical and psychic effects
he is very brave
but at this moment, my mother  - she not really there
we talk more about her, than him
 
for exemple  if you care for closeness, that also heals you 
the care that you give to someone,its heal yourself also
the health practice is good also because you take care of each others 
 
it i s quiet dysfunctional family, also because my father his medical past as a doctor, very normative  'authoritaian'
the emotional care was not really there, no tools for that 
physically was always here there is something and we couldn't be sick
we are not so trained to say we take care of each other - in the biological family
 
i don't know where i take care of myself
because there is always a tendency of what/who is really sick 
maybe longterm you will be right 
thea: in the longterm, you develop some capacities 
 
with my mother is really confronting, because yes you don't see her anymore, 
 
before my father was diagnosed
physically she was all the time in pain, she was in a pain hospital and there she tried to stop morphine, a lot of factors at the same time, where she triggered
it is difficult to have contact
 
a: psychiatry is very violent
 
m: i guided her even to that place, that was huper intense
in the psychiatry they don't know the diagnosis. There was a doubt that it was neurlogic 
i was saying goodbye because you know that someone will not be like before
they didn't make any diagnosis - neurological - so it pure psychologic.
and they do some experimentation with some pshycopharmica 
 
i was in oslo when she was the first time interned and i knew that if I would meet her never again
and a lot of patients have the sames econdary effects. Now she is something which is called lithium is a kind of stabilizer and she comes back...
 
I didn't see her for 2 weeks.
my brother is a lot abroad and when he comes back, he is saying aaah she is better
She has a loss of decorum  / you are not hygienique anymore
La diagnosis was depersonalisation ...
 
The psychoiatry is my birth village, id din't know this place, it is easy for my father, he has to just crosse the steet.
I don't know what it will be .. it was somebody who take care a lot of others
But she was goiung crazy on a lot of (sound input)
 
anne sylvestre - thea start to sing : clemence clemence a pris des vacaaanceuuh
it's a women who take care all of her life of other and in one moment she took holidays and she went to another life and everything is fine - we don't have acces there
marthe: yes and for my mother it feels also that all os okay there )
 
before we talked about tobby nathan, ethnopsychiatre, someone who wnats to have differents racdical points of view,  on psychiatry, 
in a radioshow, he spoke about autism is another form of human life and it was a choc because it breaks a unity
m :yes it takes away some aspecs of sociability in the human being
t : no it sinr' human being it from another nature. It seems enormous but it leaves other state of awarenesses to exist. Not knowing what happens for the other.
at the beginning we have some conversations, because she was not doing anything and i was saying aaah you start a strike  I know what she did in her life and maybe there is moment that she says -stop.
Expressing - I don't want this or  this. It is quiet difficult to know that she is aware and taht she has a social comptentcy to express it.
related to the psychopharmica, it let the people in this world and in this 
thea: what did you say...psychophar..?
neurotransmitters 
like anti-depressive
 
I took once champix, for stop smoking and it is developped as antidepressive and on of its secondaty effects was to stop smoking. I took it 2 times and the first time it made me not feel anything -  no energetic desires,  less impluses
 t: apathatic
 is this how most people live?  first time i was on a  trip in berlin - and yeah  
 a: how do you do to take your medicine ...
 Later I took it again, i had fear but i think the second time it didn't had the same effect. It was completely different
 
Besides from this expeirnces i don't know anti-depressive
a lot of people take some
we dont know anything on the brain 
apathy that is very difficult to feel , if you are in an emotional relationship
now she is also asking questions
tomorrow it was the mother's day inventing in my family 
but in belgium it's the second sunday of may 
is there adifference between flandres/wallonia
15 august is a saint's day.
 
in, my brother i see the symptoms, he didn't do the test, he doesn't want to do the test 
he is into prep - for homosexual regulation for HIV
 
thea: we are really in an environement, all of this are questionned all the time, all of this questions are intertwined, 
i have a trans girlfriend, who takes a lot of hormones, who is in /out psychiatry also already for 15 yeats and take medication psychoactive since than
she is also really passionnated by prep  For her it is vital.
all of this questions are thinking at the same time 
and i think that solutions 
 
psychanalyse et psychochimie  works together
psychanalyse > anxiety crisis - > after analysis, a lot starts to take chimics.
 
marthe: people like that there is a drug to resolve
it reconfimes your ego - moi moi moi _
thea: it's related to you 
marthe: ah and do you have some alternatives and do you try CBD and the doctors are really not ot it but they are totally open to use the other medicines
 
alice: did you try to introduce some alternatives to your mother ?
m: after i came from india, i introduced some alternative treatments - some stone/powder.  Because she was medicalized in a super normative environment.
thea: it's super difficult to come in the hospital with something else
m:: yes ok we can escape but where do we go ? 
difficult to find institutions with other alternatives, there are some in french speaking 
l'autre lieu bruxelles
in Netherlands, there are a lot of places where they try alternatives 
 
I don't have access to altenativs. and the alternaives which exist have a nedd to stay hidden
they enoumously fragile.
 
it's what we did at the end, it was capture, otherwise it was police and justice, 
it was an extreme situation 
it was really capturing.
yes but she says about this moment that it was capture and it's strange that she doenst see the extremity of where she was 
and why didn't we let het be in this extremity - the hygenic thing is probably the higest level of saying that someone is not going well 
you cant' take the pee and the pooh of someone which is everywhere - why don't leave circulating in loops
 
but someone which is doing loops all the time, why you cnat just let them do that 
i wasn't there all the time. My father returned in the house, he was for sure also a reason
It was her territority.and everybody took it ( my father, my brother)  her ktchen made her way to deal with the house
and the thing that your brother is not consciuous of that 
yes the way that they are constructing the story around her
my father was also from time to time aggessive. When i saw them i was there mediatiator. They 
with violence - you never know - maybe she was also a trigger but for sure you have to listen to somebody who feels violated.
it is very complex relations
it was really capturing somebody - put her somewhere and leave her there and continue your own life.
 
because this dellany, he was also in the autism, yes it was essentially that with young children and teenager
adolescent -children 
 
Wimcuyvers - he has a moutain, 
it i shere somewhere in the area. He was a advising researcher at Jan van Eyck ACademy. He declared
some friend made a documentary on  the heimat - they are very con,scient on identity politics. They did an interview with them. I didn't like so much. He was doing a research on traces on autumism. He has a family in brussels, he retired in the woods and he host different people there to be closer to nature.
 
Dellany has inspired a lot and he had a lo of people around him.He made some video's/filmsI didn't take my harddisk; 
we will be in contact -  yesss (a)
 
he made video on a boy
he wanted to take away the cildren from the institutions 
he wanted to leave the childen in a natural environment without  a social constraint
He let them evolve, and the person who accompanies them where there just to look what is their language. With some autist there is no access to language. till today. He said a priori that all the living beings have a language. They realized that the langiuage of this childeren is ' a parcours' how to do you move your body. 
 
I saw once  documentary wih childeren on a playground.
 
What for us has no sense, has no signs, is it for themlthough, they really construct a language -with their environment.
They modify this parcours.  
here is also Betty qqchose... The only big anti-psychiatric institute in north London - on some  Island.... . (seventies)
There were some doctors, patoients, care takers.
this women has smething with the hygene and she was painting the walls with the pooh
They gave them lsd, some people are calling that delirium, they were calling that, the trip, 
 
There is possibility that we call resilience a way of function which is appropriate. A wat how to fonction in relation to the environment 
she was a patient 
she develloped the principle of ' la pair-aidance ' ( is going to be financed in france), the people who have the same lived experience is a better help for someone who has the same crisis
(intermediaire between the peron who has done the 'voyage')
 
microdoses?
we will jump again in the river today? 
 
a: link with auto-medication? you know a lot and you are interested
t: i have been saved by the medicine clinic because i have had a serious accident when i was young
paralleel my mother has developed a breast cancer,  in short  it is complex. Because  I had to grow up with her sickness of mymothe and the whole emotional constuction that can result in. Feeling close, who are in diffculties, voyage who need care,
she has cancer during nine years every year, she was dropping out the chimio to try alternatives 
there was no familial support, no cohesion, eeuh,  in the 80-90ies 
now thee i smoe support. She died when i was 13th. She died on the moment i became an adult.
the moment that she died  ( a week after) was probably the moment where i could have take the power to try something or to bring something like a discussion with her because the disease put a distance between her and me.
in this moment of fractures of life, there  becoming closer, to this relation 
my grand father died two weeks ago... with a lot of npills, complelty cyborg, and i went to see him after a festival in paris, i say hello and i go and after ti stayed wo days, i will not go and i took a rock, all of this is a narration, 
which i found, when i was young he was in the military - he was extreme right - he educated me 
I wanted to go in Algeria and in indochine to understand a bit his version 
and in laos i found this sculpted rock with a hand which hold a rock, a witch rock - i left it in my stuff
a hand which holds a rock, and when i visited go the last time i met a woman who was also in rocks, i wanted to send it to her because it is manufactured stone, my gradmother says what is that kind of rock
he did a stroke and than a second one and he didn't want to go to the hospital
 
i think being there and i feel connected to the moment that my mother died, and what happens in these moments  ? there lots of thing happen .... energitic, narrative, ..
 
Living here, seems people are in certain pacours.
 
 
 
ueeh https://www.ueeh.net/ clem said it yesterday, ueeh it's a big oragnisation and all the time it pratically explode and the last editidion a lot of people lost someone 
questions of rituals, outside of the family how do you recreate
 
you have an holistic approach,
..
we felt we lost close ones, 
so we had to do something
does has to do something with identity politics, trans, ...
 
AIleen, calafou : organized a Death Café, people who gathered around death. 
Sharing beyond you personal experience. 
Just talking. with people on a table.. who you talked about you lived already in realtion to death
It was personal .. with unknown people.
 
There was a need? 
 
I also had it with a deth i Didn't accept... it didn't make sense.... but dind't have a lot of people around me. I just went to a café - - for weeks you talk in your head... (how to stop everything - or how to stop myself). There are so many people who wanna talk. But to who? ( it is the foundation of commercalization of religion)
 
thea - family?
before the funerals of my grand father, so the girl with the rocks accidently passed by in Marseille. we talked about death.
it was like meeting my sister,  i had no desire, it seemed i was falling in love with her ( she was hetera)- and the contact was more important than with the family i'm looking for a contact like a reproduction of my family...there is some people from my family that i called and there was this rencontre - more mystical
 
this rencontre was created by a lot of stange things 
we are looking for a lot of legitimate things
what is the legitimate sens
It is a way of narrating or words
you find coincidences, that allows you to put words to see what can do good
she was responsive ?
 
soulsister - the loved one - which associates with family.
it questions my love and friendship relations
........ you have dependency...physic.. you have a 'manque' it's he same in a couple 
 
The meeting was as hallucinating for both of us.
Amour 
++
eve which is working in street medic - 
she is the one who did some braids during la sale coiff in mothers and daughters 
 - ame - siris - .
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