Weisner hypothesized that, “to understand invisibility the humanities and social sciences are especially valuable, because they specialize in exposing the otherwise invisible.” Technology activists, like those at the Free Software Foundation (FSF) and the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), understand this power of technology as well. Largely constituted by technical members, both organizations, like humanists studying technology, have struggled to communicate their messages to a less technologically savvy public. 
Before one can argue for the importance of individual control over who owns technology, as both FSF and EFF do, an audience must first appreciate the power and effect that their technology and its designers have. To understand the power that technology has on its users, users must first see the technology in question. Most users do not. Both the EFF and the FSF have struggled in their appeals to technology users who are not also technologists and developers — the communities both organizations are explicitly dedicated to serve. Errors are underappreciated and underutilized in their ability to reveal technology around us. By painting a picture of how certain technologies facilitate certain mistakes, one can better show how technology mediates. By revealing errors, scholars and activists can reveal previously invisible technologies and their effects more generally. Errors can reveal technologies and their power and can do so in ways that users of technologies confront daily and understand intimately.

Benjamin Mako Hill, Revealing Errors in: Error: Glitch, Noise, and Jam in New Media Cultures (2011)

Alex Hache

We don't value tech work, like in food: 
Marga Padilla: Alors pourquoi les gens ne s’organisent pas pour avoir leurs fournisseurs technologiques, en
achetant directement le support technologique nécessaire à leur vie, tout comme ils achèteraient leurs carottes ?

L’essayiste féministe Jo Freeman a élaboré des théories sur cette “tyrannie de l’absence de structures” en expliquant que ce soi-disant vide vient souvent accompagné d’un “leadership informel, non reconnu et inexplicable qui est pernicieux, car sa propre existence lui a été niée.” Il est donc important de prendre conscience des rôles et des tâches exercées par les participants du projet, et voir la façon dont ces derniers s’auto-responsabilisent. Le terme technopolitique signale la nécessité d’un équilibre entre les connaissances sociales et politiques, la programmation, l’administration, la divulgation et la création de synergies N-1. Un collectif technopolitique qui valorise le travail et les contributions de
toutes les parties, et qui est conscient des relations de pouvoir qui le traversent, a possiblement plus de chance de perdurer.

From washing the dishes to cleaning the toilets: 

Concernant l’application de principes anarchistes dans des projets technopolitiques, nous pouvons penser, d’une part, que la liberté individuelle de chacune de nous est plus importante que tout le reste, que chacune devrait faire seulement ce qu’elle souhaite en laissant le collectif suivre un développement organique. D’autre part, les anarchistes du domaine social pensent que la liberté individuelle ne s’acquiert que si nous sommes toutes plus libres, et cherche à créer des communautés (physiques ou cyber) où l’on pense et où l’on auto-organise l’effort entre toutes pour atteindre cette autonomie et cette liberté. Ce second modèle exige d’établir des canaux pour l’auto-organisation et de reconnaître que si personne n’aime nettoyer les
toilettes, il faudra bien trouver un moyen de le faire entre toutes.

SpiderAlex: Do what you say and say what you do

R E S E T  T H E   N E T

Where are we?
The Resetthenet campaign is developed by Fight for the Future: 

Fight for the Future is dedicated to expanding the Internet's transformative power for good. 
Our goal: to build a grassroots movement to ensure that everyone can access the Internet’s many resources affordably, free of interference or  censorship and with full privacy. Our vision: a world where everyone can enjoy the basic freedom to express, create and connect online.

It is not mentioned anywhere (not even in their Who We Are https://www.fightforthefuture.org/aboutus/index.html ) that Fight for the Future is US-based. Their 'issues' reveal a certain pre-occupation:

*Copyright and patent laws are outdated and overzealous. They hurt artists and innovation, shifting control of our art, media, and ideas to large corporations.
*Slow speed and limited access: Lack of competition in the U.S. broadband market has resulted in an Internet  system that is among the slowest, most expensive and least available  among developed nations.   
*Tracking and Spying: People can’t express themselves freely online when they feel like they are being watched. In  an extreme form, government and corporate surveillance can lead to  political repression.

Under What others are saying we find three people mentioned: Edward Snowden (US), Jennifer Granick (US) and Bruce Schneier (US).

All 40 supporting organisations are US-based.

No translations of the campaign are offered, no invitation to translate is being made.

Who takes back from who

For the campaign, several commercial services are employed: Github, tumblr, Youtube. There's a #ResetTheNet Twitter brigade and a Facebook cover image. The Privacy Pack is available from google play + app store.
Throughout the website: Share on Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter, Google+
Site does not use Google Analytics, but Piwik.

Design choices seem deliberately 'neutral' and indistinguishable from corporate designs. Tasteful blue and white, state of the art fluid webdesign, lots of javascript. Fonts are served through Adobe's proprietary Typekit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typekit 

On first page:

Don't ask for your privacy. Take it back. "Mass surveillance is illegitimate. I'm taking steps to take my freedoms back and I expect governments and corporations to follow in my  footsteps and take steps to stop all mass government surveillance." After you sign, protect yourself here.

Interesting emphasis on government surveillance by omission of corporations in second phrase. 
Unclear which government, what corporations, in what context mass surveillance is seen as illegitimate.

From the campaign video: 
*Governments are building fences (What governments? What happened to corporations?)
*Mistakes we can fix (Is it our fault/responsibility? Is it 'us' against 'them' (the government)
*"Turn off government spying, turn on freedom"
*NSA resistant features?!
*Safe = Open = Free

Privacy is The Solution

Not the Net but Privacy is lost, and needs to be taken back. Hence after you signed the pledge (why not 'petition'?) you are invited to go straight to the Pack.

Maybe not Privacy but encryption is the solution? Not all tools offered are based on encryption

Packaging privacy

The Privacy Pack: It's logo retakes the universalist fluid webdesign image one step further: whatever your device (read: context), the net should be equally taken back. Compare https://pack.resetthenet.org/ to https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fluid%20web%20design

... but is it a pack? Of course not. It is actually a bunch of tools developed in/for different contexts but presented with a similarly styled logo, and text. In that way, the pidgin bird blends well with the onion, and some cryptocat 'fun'.

The part that is presented first and looks most 'pack like' comprises of four apps for smartphones, available on google play + app store.

To find more about criteria, I am sent to a tumblr page that is designed to look the same as the mainsite http://resetthenet.tumblr.com/post/84331967485/the-privacy-pack 

At the bottom of the page:

If you have any thoughts on how to improve the privacy pack, be in touch. (Though be aware that we don’t have a lot of flexibility here. We need tools that a broad community of experts can get behind.)

Imagined users, that's how we win

On the home page of Resetthenet, users are never explicitly mentioned. Video uses stick figures, turning globes and 'we'.
*
Under How to #ResetTheNet: The solution we find:
We can't stop targeted attacks, but we *can* stop mass surveillance, by building proven security into the everyday Internet.

In lists of options for various operating systems, routine distinctions are being made between tools for 'savvy', tech savvy and non-descript users but no distinction between what type of situation or political reality a user might be in.

On the tumblr page (seems to be written/edited before actual campaign happened), the universalism of the Privacy Pack is made explicit:

The Reset the Net privacy pack will be a selection of software  and tips tailored to common computers, phones, and tablets that literally anyone can use. Our goal is to accommodate literally everyone, and offer bonus tools and instructions for more technical users. Since the tools will be pretty much universal, it should be easy for people to share the privacy packs with friends.

Interesting connection between the universalism of the tool, and the ability to share.

Later on, a distinction between levels of sophistication:

as a bonus for more sophisticated users
as a bonus for sophisticated users or those with anonymity needs

Under the header Important notes a disclaimer halfheartedly evokes an imaginary user that may be 'the specific target of surveillance' but excuses the inclusion of not-so-safe tools with the remark that they are unusually easy to use. Who are those 'auditors looking at the code' by the way?
It also repeats a phrase used on Cryptocat site that you should never trust any piece of software with your life, which is a tough thing to say to those experiencing surveillance based violence. Your infrastructure might kill you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-qU6_Q_GCc

Important notes
Re: Pidgin and Adium, if you believe you may be the specific target of  surveillance, these aren't the tools for you. Pidgin has had a large  number of remotely exploitable vulnerabilites recently, and auditors looking at the code believe there are likely to be many more. Still, these tools are effective against passive mass surveillance, and they're unusually easy to use.
Cryptocat is not a magic bullet. Even though Cryptocat provides useful encryption, you should never trust any piece of software with your life, and Cryptocat is no exception. Cryptocat does not mask your IP address or hide your identity, and, like all software, cannot fully protect against a targeted attack on your person or electronics.

On homepage, under What others are saying, Bruce Schneier is quoted, saying: 
    
"The NSA and others do mass surveillance because it's easier than targeting. Initiatives like Reset the Net force governments into targeted surveillance. That's how we win."

Deduction: Subject has a smartphone, lives in the US, speaks English and is not subject to targeted surveillance. (HAHAHAHAHAHA)

========================================================

Seems interesting to look at attempts to 'make tools for activists' rather than looking at specific tools. Project needs to be in EN or FR; necessary  to have (at least) one in Spanish, Turkish or Arab.

*https://guardianproject.info/
*https://tacticaltech.org/security-box or https://tacticaltech.org/gender-tech-institute
*https://techtoolsforactivism.org/
*...

Just ask and that will be that

How to imagine a form of technological development beyond 'solving needs' of users? 
What does it mean to develop an imagination of  what someone else might need, is capable of? 
How to create more interesting forms of dialogue between user needs and tech developers?

(SEDA: I THINK THESE ARE POWERFUL QUESTIONS AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO DISCUSS HOW AND WHERE WE CAN ADDRESS THEM IN OUR PAPER!)

I would like to look at existing efforts within F/LOSS communities that try to respond to needs of activists; how do these platforms actually make a dialogue, conversation possible and how the kinds of technologies resulting from those situations might be different.

*Tactical tech collective https://www.tacticaltech.org/
*Liberation tech http://cddrl.fsi.stanford.edu/libtech/
*http://kune.cc/ 
*Constant + Libre Graphics (?)
*Transhackfeminism!
*EFF
*Backbone 404
*...

Where and when is 'user input' located, expected (and where not)
From bug report (after the fact) to thinking together about what technology is needed
How is a language between user and developer communities being developed

Might be interesting to look at related, but different existing strategies of (FLOSS?) orgs to diversify community, or to be more inclusive. Specific targeted campaigns (ie: involve 'women', 'minorities'). This is not necessarily the same as bridging user-developer divide, as it mostly means: involving 'users' so they eventually become 'developers', or 'contributors'.

Olia Lialina: Turing Complete User
http://contemporary-home-computing.org/turing-complete-user/
In “As we may think”, while describing an ideal instrument that would augment the scientist of the future, Vanevar Bush mentions:
For mature thought there is no mechanical substitute. But creative thought  and essentially repetitive thought are very different things. For the latter there are, and may be, powerful mechanical aids
Opposed to this, users, as imagined by computer scientists, software  developers  and usability experts are the ones who’s task is to spend as  little  time as possible with the computer, without wasting a single  thought on it. They require a specialized, isolated app for every “repetitive  thought”, and, most importantly, delegate drawing the border in between creative and repetitive, mature and primitive, real  and virtual, to app  designers.
There  are periods in history, moments in life (and many hours a day!) where  this approach makes sense, when delegation and automation are required  and enjoyed. But in times when every aspect of life is computerized it  is not possible to accept “busy with something else” as a norm.

There is nothing one user can do, that another can’t given enough time and respect. Computer Users are Turing Complete.

http://blogs.lgru.net/ft/conversations/just-ask-and-that-will-be-that

Devs that are (not) users and users that are (not) devs

Where are divisions of labor located in software?
Looking at the way divisions between users and developers is inscribed into software, interfaces, infrastructural architecture etc.
Path dependency: histories of use
Soft forms of access management
Expectation management
Distribution of work/tasks/responsibilities/risks through 'sending different users to different files'
Three tier architecture - separation of tasks
Efficiency, comfort: division of labour

Ways users/developers can share, exchange, swap tasks. Difference between flexible and rigid divisions of work.

*User: it would be nice if feature x could work in such-and-such a way
*Developer: Already fixed in the dev version
*(User installs dev version)
*User: Feature x is great, but crashes when I do y
*Developer: Can't help you; you should use the stable version

Conversation with SpiderAlex

From division of labor to distribution of labour.

Transhackfeminist! event + anarcha server before, during, after
Dreaming of a feminist server
http://esc.mur.at/de/node/1229 
Delegation vs distance, possible divisions of work - dividing and/or sharing
http://note.pad.constantvzw.org/public_pad/spideralex

Conversation with Reni Hofmuller

Reni (speaking from esc as a practice)
Important to ask: Who can delegate? Who has the power to delegate?
Delegation is necessary; it can be a way to rotate, involve people.
It is a way to empower.
To be involved means you can think through different layers, connect them (practical and conceptual).
So needing moments of involvement, and moments to specialise
Specialisation is good; experts are necessary. People that have a routine, an expertise. Connecting that knowledge to a project.
Reni: I will invite all people involved in technical realities of a project to take part in decision making project. Making the network of expertise visible.
It is important for people to (learn to) understand when technical decisions impact conceptual decisions.

Things that have to happen before the artists arrive. Can we prepare or not? Realising a work vs. supporting a work. What can we offer? Dreams vs realities. Not so much developing new tools? Actually ... yes. Who can solve tech projects

Delegation for time reasons or skill/knowledge: difference? 
I have no intention to become a programmer, but learned some python to be able to speak to a programmer.

Example: Valentina. She has experience; she knows what she needs. (experience is not expertise and vice versa?)

How well can you describe the abstract layers of the work you want to do / be done? Ability to differentiate between optional, desirable, must not happen. Art and politics share this decision matrix.

The importance of routine ... routine as experience. 

What cannot be delegated ... she speaks about the opening of exhibition. Reni: I need to take my role as buffer serious. Delegation and responsibility? Can continuity be delegated?

Different roles in a collective, constellation. Taking over, and/or working together.

In moments of crisis, how do you 'seduce' someone to help out. That's a sneaky moment.
When you are tired, too busy ... that is difficult, to confront complicated situations. No action/attention means often that things are staying, going the way


TODO before October 1
Read 3 fibreculture articles
Reread notes Darmstadt
Reread Tyranny of structurelessness + discussion after
Reread Fibreculture call
Interview Spideralex
Diff of abstracts

====================


Let's first get things done: on division of labor and practices of  delegation  in times of mediated politics and politicized technologies

Be it in getting out the call for the next demonstration on some "cloud    service", or developing a progressive tech project in the name of an    imagined user community, scarcity of resources and distribution of    expertise makes short cuts inevitable. But do they really?

The current distance between those who organise their activism to develop "technical infrastructures" and those who bring their struggles to   these  infrastructures is remarkable. The paradoxical consequences can   be  baffling: (radical) activists organize and sustain themselves  using   "free" technical services provided by Fortune 500 companies. At  the  same  time, "alternative tech practices", like the Free Software   Community,  are sustained by a select (visionary and male) few,   proposing crypto  with 9-lives as the minimum infrastructure for any   political  undertaking.

The naturalization of this division of labor may be recognized in    statements about activists having better things to do than to tinker    with code or hardware, or in technological projects that locate their    politics solely in the technology and infrastructures as if they are    outside of the social and political domain. What may seem like a    pragmatic solution actually re-iterates faultlines of race, gender,  age   and class. Through the convenient delegation of "tech matters" to  the   techies or to commercial services, collectives may experience a  shift  in  the collective's priorities and a reframing of their  activist  culture  through technological decisions. The latter, however,  are  typically not  open to a broader political discussion and  contestation.  Such separation  also gets in the way of actively  considering the way in  which changes  in our political realities are  entangled with shifts in  technological  infrastructures.

We   want to use this day to resist the reflex of "first getting things    done" in order to  start a long term collaboration that intersects   those  of us with a background in politics of society and politics of technology.

----------

miriyam: 
why we are here, how we are doing this
what brought us together: unique experiment
a combination of coincidence and commitment
some of us knew each other before from political engagements
from political and technological engagements
representing a group different political backgrounds
in terms of our activism, our idealogical training, and shaping
from different disciplinary backgrounds
we also come from different political causes
we feel that very strangly: how certain causes are more prevalent
what brought us together is understanding how these different backgrounds can help us in reinterpreting the discussions deal with
the discussions we engage and share with you
is the dilemma and reality of division of labor
within activism, technological invention, activism, practice based on division labor
we were discussing this in the last couple of months
in a critical way
criticizing the usual division between thinkers and doers
also in the tech community: where the techies may be absent from the ground of activist environments
this produces different tensions
we want to approach this dilemma of division of labor not only as a negative
but also how these tensions can produce new and progressive forms of operation
division of labor we initially spoke about, in simple manner
the techies and activists
there are other kinds of division of labor
that has to do with what you think you are fighting or against
interrogating the logics of division of labor
you can maybe come to a productive, progressive division of labor that is not reproducing convention divisions labor
and exporting hegemonic power relations
the reproduce race, class, gender hierarchies
we place this in a wider discussion about time and timing
one of the reasons that these division of labors reproduce conventional mainstream hierarchic forms
is part of the time pressure and moments of urgency
so, let's first get things done
we don't have time
the timing of this discussion is not a coincidence
this has been a permanent feeling
2011 revolution
indignados
wall street
forced on us to act quickly
we can't afford the privilege of thinking through politically correct issues
throughout these moments of urgency
we see that normative ideas are weaved through them
it also means normative ideas about what is political
what issues are politically relevant, and not
what are taboo
this has been very clear in the last years
islamophobia/palestine are difficult
of course,the techies have their own set of ideas and ideals
seda reminds me, they have a particular idea about what politics is
whether you want to be seen as political
a universal approach to politics, that is applicable to everyone, without takings sides
getting your hands dirty
what are dominant forms of organizing and producing knowledge
how do we overcome the tensions that this division of labor brings about in a progressive way
t is not that division of labor should cease to exist
but how do we redefine division of labor
understand the long term solution has to be sacrificed for the short term survival
how do we make sure that the long term is not always sacrificed
this is a privilege
we want to do it also in a way that is not conventional, but in an interactive way which jara will explain

jara:
we designed a tiny experiment
based on the division of labor, we want you to be part of it
what is the labor?
two tasks...
the first one and then we go to the second one
you see the abstract of this meeting
where we gathered the key ideas and questions that have brought us together
we want to re-write it
this is our artifact that we want to put our hands in
we invite you to put your hands in, too
during this journey, meeting
perhaps we manage to finish the task of re-writing the abstract
reads out the url
does everyone know what a pad is: it allows you to work in a collective way
you can write your name, but you can also participate anonymously
once you have entered you can go into the text and manipulate it

you can maybe also help us document this session
you can add some information and continue writing
we are going to work on the abstract  as our artifact

jara: i am going to start with the title: 
i can present my position from there
you practices of delegation in times of mediated politics and politicized technologies
why?
as i introduced earlier, i tend t frame my activism of professional and activism in mediation
but i understand mediation in a wide sense
what is mediation and who or what is a mediator?
we usually imagine a diplomat, who is in charge of making decisions, and act in a goodist way
how about mediation that provokes dissensus, that id not so goodish
and, how about a media that is not made by a human, but by a technology
how about understanding an institution/infrastructure as mediator itself

objectologias: a school in spain
what are about practices of delegation? not a delegation to a collective that makes it on you, but also the power relationships we have with technologies
while delegating to technologies, we are making strong political decisions
we are doing things with them
i tend to fame my activity, professional and activism, after 15m eruption, i learned that there is pretty much similar way of doing
i could see certain common gestures of what i was doing by then
i was working in a media lab, doing cultural mediation
working with communities that do not speak the same languages
artists/scientists/techies/theorists
we ended up understanding that the media lab is a form of mediation
that was the professional side
when you jump to the square
you find yourself there with your body and thinking
you see that discourses are agents
the square is an agent, architecturally
the assembly has strong protocols
inhabits consensus and dissensus
we have to look closer at these practices of mediation
i was lucky  to do so in professional and rest of the life
a way of looking at the 15m situation
it is important for bringing this wide definition of technology/politics and politicized technologies here
practices, because this is performative rather than representational, performative way of bring in the world

femke:
half sentence:
the naturalization of this division of labor may be recognized in statements
as a graphic designer i made the decision to reinstall (2006) my operating system: linux
political decision
i was interested in the relationship between tools and practice
i wanted to understand what that relationship was
in proprietary tools there was very little space for interrogation
adobe at the time was using sharing, creativity and similar mantras
that happened in 2006
i started to get involved in something called the libre graphics community
developers and users of tools that i was starting to use
gimp/inkscape -> larger communities
people involved in w3c standards bodies
people interested in image and color correction
very fascinating gathering of people 
sometimes very touched by the politics of this work
and mainly touched by the technical issues of this work
this was a super exciting environment: all these layers come together
since i got involved, in the way people were speaking to ech other: the relation between tool and practice was under merged
there was not a lot of exchange between artists and developers
there was a general interested by the artists and designers that showed up or were developing tools
so i started events that could facilitate this kind of discussion
there was the us/uk dominance
85percent of the participants were male
bodies were not really on the table
and more and more problems started to erupt
discussions didn't go anywhere
i have been working on ways: how for me, as a feminist woman, a non-tech developer and artist
these three divisions of labor started to come together
when organizing
was there food, was the situation right?
i want to talk about a situation, and think through how you can make a situation, and documents
free software communities are often busy with documents
how could you make documents that would somehow make the naturalization of the division of labor visible, in a way that would not stop them from working, but also refuse to accept that the division of labor is the way it is.
to deal with the conventional roles that we find ourselves in.


miriyam:
the sentence that says activists have better things to do than tinker with code or hardware.
and the end of the paragraph
i come from a different site
my thing is very much informed by the activism on the ground
in the context that i work on and involved in is not very technologically advanced
the division of labor in terms of geography becomes really sharp
i am talking about syria, morocco, and some of the work i have done in egypt
the notion of "we have better things to do" is not about i choose to do
but the sense of urgency pre-dominates most of the decisions
they are not just something to criticize
see they are short-sighted, they don't think about the larger picture
but they are questions about life and death
now that we are three years further from the eruption of the protest, we are in a position to reflect
and to reconsider decisions that were made
we are very fortunate to be able to make these reflections
based on that, i propose that the time, the moment of revolution determines how you engage with this division of labor
and teaching yourself as a movement or a group to use technology as a way to avoid oppression
the phase of the revolution, i will later in the anecdote part of how i think of a pre-moment and post-moment helps to critically reflect
pre- and post- protests, yu have more space to be critical about we have better things to do
at the tipping moment, it is understandable to say we have better things to do
the root of the current problems lies in that phase
in 2011, it really was now and never
there was no time to think about the negative side effects of technology
the need and necessity was to mobilize
as many people as possible
in terms of what is the tool that makes that possible
the mainstream commercial tool is what makes that possible
you are not in a position to philosophize about whether it is correct, we should create our own alternative
you have to, 
i consider that we are now in a post phase: there is a counter revolution everywhere
the backlash appears
it now becomes clear that it is easier to ...
the corporations give data to states
the arab region is in the top 5 states requesting information from Facebook and receiving them
so in the post phase, we have better things to do, we see the backlash of that
we can reflect on that
it is still very difficult to say what should we have done then
should they have not gone on Facebook and then missing the tipping point
then it would have been 5000 people rather than 500.000 people and would have been crushed anwyays
we were discussing about collective practice as one entry point of discussing this phenomena
but changing our political economy, to think about situated practices
thinking of regional and class differences are important
the situated practice of a group in a society that has 40percent penetration vs. 80percent penetration
so situated practices, and not just collective practices
where literacy is very different
i would like to see that acknowledged in the abstract
as part of the self-critical definition of what we are doing
that this abstract will mean very different things in different contexts


explain what we will do this afternoon:
        we will share with you four real life anecdotes
        one by one
        it is to talk about something specific and try to bring everything together
        the situations will be different
        one way we decided to help ourselves not to go too wide:
                each anecdote will pick 
                
maurizio:
i know people coming from the internet industry
they are coming from companies that started designing security for the internet, they are based in buenos aires but they work globally
short story on how i met them:
        we were trying to set up a conversation about political issues
        specifically about urban issues
        with a global guests, discuss certain issues in europe and south america
        these guys were enthusiastic to help us in the beginning
        they were very excited, because there is a trend in the industry about prediction models
        all the excitement about big data is because they can provide, they forecast behaviors of things and people
        this was for me interesting, it was a very different approach
        i was trained as an architect
        compared to these technologies, prediction technologies, you cannot even start to talk about the problem
        the variable you manage as 3-4 people is very few
        they could show us movement in buenos aires in real time based on mobile phone data
        this is fascinating
        but they are using this data to build companies and sell to telecommunication parties
        this information is amazing but how can we make this public
        otherwise there is a lot of talent, engineering and infrastructure just to make a company sell to a telecommunications company
        that was the beginning
        it was related to other people working in the "predictive market"
        this is super interesting, that you can predict something, that technology will prevent some problem that we have to face
        this was in 2006-2007
        last year i went to a meeting in london of the mozilla community
        it was the first time for me
        it was very interesting
        there was the paranoia about surveillance
        if you come from the global south you don't care that much about surveillance
        if you need to work with public data sets, they are not available
        in fact the idea of surveillance, they have nothing, they can't set up an infrastructure
        why should i be worried about how they are handling my data
        when they can't handle their own data
        
femke: 
        seeing prediction is great as a topic
        technologies that are ready for anything that will happen, that can transgress time
        
ruth:
        quite mundane level
        what you were saying about collective design
        vs. design for the collective
        as someone who works with the history of design
        having taken that on as an artist, and critiquing colonial design
        in the sense that madina uses colonial
        obviously i am struggling with the challenges of making the design
        for this very forum
        but also as it gets converted to the web and to the internet
        as someone who is producing content all the time
        there are simple practicalities, the choosing of a font
        employing people to do new fonts, that are relevant
        these are the nuts and bolts stuff
        it is a tricky negotiation
        
berno:
        i am chewing on something
        it is related to the bits and pieces related to temporality
        it connects to my current research and future plans
        for a moment, look at temporality as a mode of production
        as a politicized space and medium of production
        what you bring up here
        in the title and text
        is part of a burning, scattered and complex set of problematics
        relating to temporality
        its mechanization
        its networked structure and capitalization
        i am about to start a practice based research project on the politics of temporality in the form of a festival i would be interested in connecting on this issue
        this socially organized space is one of the drivers of acceleration, of a different temporality, i would like to put that on the table
        
jara:
        we also found very interesting discovery
        these sneaky moments
        the notion of short cut
        the pre-occupation of resisting certain reflexes
        like the pre- and post-moment
        temporalities are interesting
        
        also regarding what maurizio was saying about predicting
        this practice of speculation and speculative design
        thinking like in science fiction, but not through scientific method
        as a method of designing technologies
        that stretches the question of time and our relation with time
        when we think of the digital, we think about it as space
        but how about thinking of it as time
        you can connect now
        
        but again, without going out of our triad of technology, sneaky moments, collective practice
        it is important, we are starting to find some crossings
        
        

valentina:
all this data, there must be some material existence, are there forever, stored forever
to think of this materially and what does it mean

this is maybe also something to think about in the situatedness, maybe we need to think about the specific space
this cable, this factory
which allows us to do a transversal thinking and not the division between the doers and thinkers


femke:
        this is where we thought about path dependency, that could be something that we can use
        
        
jara:
        we decide to the things like this, because of a decision that was there before
        where something becomes a way of doing it
        path dependency is this notion that calls an alert on how dependent we are on this path, especially in these sneaky moments
        make decisions, change it, we have the opportunity, because certain items of the world have changed
        this could be a key situation
        where we can change the path dependency or go ahead in the normal way of doing things
        
femke:
        trained graphic designer looking at software
        i look at layout software
        you see on the level of interface but also code
        Gutenberg is there
        the origin of print is completely embedded into the tool and comes out in the way you work with it
        how do you know, how do you read, and does it need to be like that?
        
maurizio:
        the web page, it is a page and also a plot
        it is a way that we are used to reading
        there are tools trying to challenge things
        cartography is trying to do a lot with this
        it is difficult, because all the interaction with the information, changes the quality of the objects that are based there
        we rely so much on this
        
miriyam:
        i don't if this is an example of too detailed
        the mainstreaming is also related to political economy and cultural hegemony
        the universal and web is a western conception
        the left to right logic of writing
        the ngoization of politics in the 90s
        visual campaigns to raise awareness and whatever
        they loved posters
        and then you had these funny moments
        like 4 steps of hygienee
        but you read it from an arabic context, you have to be clean, but the objective is to be dirty
        
femke:
        all of us have been looking at standards
        looking at them as histories, and genealogies
        other things that needs to be on the agenda
        
jara:
        another example of dependency, which is related to this notion of identity
        fixed identities are present all around the technological world
        naming, making decisions on gender
        it is so present
        how about looking at that as a path dependency, as well
        if we think of collectives as not a bunch of humans with fixed subjectivities
        maybe we can start from a different perspective
        
        
anna:
        temporality
        how do you prevent, how do you anticipate, what filters do you use to anticipate danger?
        the rotten part that will infect our good society
        it would be interesting to understand how tech activism, is approaching if there is any you can expand in this idea of writing cryptography, to prevent the future
        these predictions
        is this a way, is there an alternative possibility of doing other predictions, or is prediction in itself problematic
        it is very western, this perspective in which we are, also as an alternative which we are, we need to apply this category 
        present, danger and future
        temporal link, to create a society, to define society, and to define what is not society
        to confirm what is danger and breaking it
        alternative thoughts, or circles, we fall into these illusionary paths, it is very difficult not to fall for it
        how do you deal with this problematization, with this super fear?
        
        
christof:
        this conference, which includes some ethics in engineering
        making engineers, to make them aware of the implications in other domains
        how much can you imagine people using technology without becoming engineers themselves
        with a certain amount of knowledge
        i had an impression that
        if we think about apple, by sealing computers, looking like a cosmetics
        you can use it like a magical object that you have to hand to the sorcerer if it fucks up
        is it possible to use tech responsibly without becoming engineers?
        
        
mauricio:
        how the web explains itself in order to keep it open...
        it was born in one way or another as an open ecosystem
        it is not becoming more closed
        there are some initiatives that try to tackle this
        modzilla foundation is an ngo
        they are developing this language of blocks
        like lego metaphor for the web
        so that it is easy for them
        to spread the word that you can be part of the web if you understand it
        if you can build with these blocks
        this is an approach
        they also develop: a way of navigating through the web
        you can see third parties that can extract information while you are navigating
        they are taking information from your navigation
        called "spotlight" maybe?
        civil society initiatives to make the web more open
        i don't know if they will succeed
        but they are trying to make the gap between experts and non-experts less wide
        
femke:
        if you think 
        about ways to speak between experts rather than to become experts
        to find forms of dialogue, forms of interrogation, that you can probe and call for help
        there is also this discourse of technology is important we need to learn, if we don't learn we will be excluded
        it is not about becoming someone or something else
        but finding ways to demand dialogue
        to demand an exchange
        that means you need to know something
        and you need to know when you need to demand a dialogue
        if you don't know what crypto with 9 lives is, how can you know that it is wrong
        you should be careful not to think that becoming engineers is the path
        

mauricio:
        the engineers have this problem, they are not citizens they are engineers
        they tend to believe in the problems 
        their expertise does not demand a civic integrity
        this is my profession, i am doing what i am asked to do
        sometimes they don't consider themselves citizens
        
        
berno:
        i think what you said is important
        try to find a situation only for learning together
        but also find ways to bridge gaps that will increase
        the eigendynamics of expertise is directed to go deeper
        i wanted to ask before
        the response of the one guy
        that this is not about death but life...
        oh no
        there are concepts used, even within western homogenized sphere of thinking
        are not normal....
        things come from economic theory
        rational individual assuming that he has at his disposal all possible knowledge
        and assumes he is making a decision on all possible knowledge
        
        the guy probably did not understand the concept of biopolitics
        one would say this was a political statement against the issue you were raising
        maybe the guy has no idea what you are talking about
        i am interested in situations, time, temporality
        where one could bring together a set of important concepts, pertaining to a certain problematic
        before we can svn think together
        yesterday the clash with letear was telling in this respect
        which relates to another problem that we see
        which is about a blindness about the difference between the common and the different
        
        
NEXT ANECDOTE:
miriyam:
it was difficult to think about anecdotes
as concrete outbursts expose things in the movement
i had thousand examples related to the dilemmas of division of labor in the movement
in concrete circumstances i was involved in 
as an academic and an activist on the ground
the city i am most active is in oxford
which is connected to londong
a rich political scene
with one leg in amsterdam, which is where i grew up and am from
the other leg in morocco where my parents are from and i do field work
which raise questions about alliances and political principles
instead of simplifying and start with one anecdote
i thought it would be good to go back to the beginning of a time
when most of the movements that we are involved in have started and that was 2011
which led to the both of many different campaigns, committees, new political groups and new political parties
you were talking about podebos as a consequence of the indignados
i want to go back to give you a feeling of what it meant
what revolution means to a lot of people
where now they think that it is all over
who are mourning that time
who are talking in terms of post-revolution, counter-revolution
including myself
i selected two videos
which capture the moment this hyper-optimism
i think also shows
the bravery of people at the time
which probably was a translation of their belief that they were going to win a revolution
otherwise they wouldn't have taken these risks that they regret now
one is from morocco and the other one from syria
the first place people were able to congregate on the streets was a big deal
that people were bodily present on a square
what this video does
it is not subtitled but it is part of the archival attempts of the movement that has been called
20february movement
all our movements are related to months
we are not very creative
the moroccon version is called the 20february movement
just play for a few seconds
show video
this freaked out the regime
what they are saying is
the slogan of the arab uprisings was
the people demand the fall of the system/regime (nizam)
he is saying, the people the fall of the parliament
the fall of the corrupt
at the end he says, listen to the voice of the people
that was the moment
this was in the capital
and this was the biggest demonstration for domestic reasons in a very long time
a moment in which the power of new media and political opposition began to emerge
it was shared on many platforms
it sends shivers everywhere but especially to the regime
this was an archival project to collect and put them on youtube
to have them available for mobilization
what is interesting and partly a bit sad
now they have become sources of nostalgia
they are watched and referred to in past tense
this is not part of what we are doing but something that happened in 2011
it is also showing the power, besides all the negative implications of new media, it shows the power that it provides temporary vitamins for moments of despair
a source of stamina
this send video is even more important
the arab revolutions are very different in each country
one of the most difficult one is the syrian uprising
syria is in a political triangle
a nexus of geo-political interests
russian, iranian, french ... interventions 
a lot of interests played out here
and syria became a proxy for other wars
syria is also one of the most oppressive of arab regimes
it is really brutal
political expression is very hard
the history has shown that the regime does not shy away from committing massacres
as we saw in the recent years
the numbers of death are above half a million
worst case scenario in comparison to others
it was shocking for activists that the syrians were early on, march 2011
following in the footsteps of the tunisian and egyptian revolution
they were quite early in going out to the streets
and did things that nobody imagined that they would do
it became the anthem of the syrian revolution
a song by ibrahim kasjus
"come on go basher"
the music is very simple folklore, dabka music
in order to attach to the sentiments of ordinary people, workers
the text is a hippo critical political agenda
and this is done in open air
if you can see form the spot lights
everybody is filming this and taking pictures
the whole idea of security and anonymity that is part of the reflex of activists in syria have disappeared almost over night
i show you the most famous song of the revolution


this is i think the product or the pill that many of us used to increase the stamina
it is shared a lot among activists
in nostalgic moments but also in moments of mobilization
so, he literally says that freedom is at the door
it is important to sketch this context before i continue to say something about
something related to our previous discussion about time and temporality
basically the dictatorship of imposes on activists whether they use technology or not
certain engagement with tools and discourses, whether they want it or not
it is difficult to come together and say we should engage in our technologies in this or that way
it is almost always the case that you come to that realization in reflection
you finish and reflect that notice we are beyond the tipping point now
it is hard to realize the momentum when you are in the momentum to apply certain reflection

i tried to visualize what the internet means in these moments of reflection
is internet a tool to mobilize or is it a way to go deep into debate and fight and make friends
so i thought it was important for researchers and activists to deconstruct the internet in a simple way
as a space and as a tool
sns are a space where things are shared
they are more than a tool, in 2011 Facebook did not offer the ease with which you open groups and pages
that is now normal, t was not yet developed to that extent
technology as a tool in the arab revolution cases that depended on the penetration rate
with higher penetration rate like tunisia and egypt it was an organize part of the movement
in other places like libya, it was not part of the movement, it was an elitist form of organizing and engaging
more than time, to see a revolution, the term revolution has become problematic in itself
is it maybe uprising, is it not more than a political transformation
this division, if it still works
my attempt to make it easier to engage with
to divide between a pre-tipping point and post.
and the debate is now, is it post, is it finished, or is it the time of counter-revolution
we need to now get rid of the economic and political system
that is how i use this matrix to understand the development within which we find ourselves
it needs another grid, what is the concrete context
this is still too general
when we know hw many people have a mobile form, and have access to social media
and other forms of means and mediation then we can redefine and address some of those questions
this was very much influenced by my engagement with egyptian and tunisian activists
where mobile penetration was 100percent
the penetration of social networking sites tripled between january and february
even twitter was 2-3 percent but it made a huge leap
people thought it was a key to the revolution even if you don't understand what it is
this is the concrete environment that activists have to maneuver through
if we take internet and technology as part of our environment
these are the points that activists have to maneuver through
the internet is a moment of corporate complicity: 
a pace for government propaganda
and the mukhabarat makes use of these networks for their own means

this is how you have to maneuver to still use the technology but not be captured
there are 100s of dilemmas in this story


we have 5 minutes for some questions again


jara:
        to start the discussion
        from this very interesting picture
        we can start talking about the material conditions in which tools are produced
        if you look at durability and continuity in post-revolution situation
        it is also important to look at the material conditions of who tech is produced by
        libre tools are produced in precarious material conditions
        in terms of the post- and counter- if we are talking about durability
        sustainable time
        it is ket to talk about material conditions and also reproductive issues of those spheres
        how are the production of tools maintained by whom
        this is an extension only
        this is so interesting, your narrative of the space
        i would like to expand the space to the physical material conditions in which tools are produced
        
berno:
        how would you briefly describe the, you are exposed to the western media reports
        and the different discourses exploiting the events
        there is a thick cloud of ...we don't need to call it manipulation
        at the same time you are closed to the situation on the ground
        what narratives are forged and what do you see between these narratives?
        
miriyam:
        that is an important point
        one of the critiques when this exploded in 2011
        we can call it "cyber-orientalism"
        a sudden interest in the region
        after for years being portrayed as meak, feeble
        were now seen as agents
        they were allowed to be part of the mediation
        by inserting technology as the actual agent
        hence the label Facebook revolution
        which started in iran in 2009
        the selective choosing of spokespersons
        in egypt, for instance, whaled ghanim, who was a google manage of the region
        who had started a Facebook group secretly
        he was the ambassador of the arab revolutions
        he quickly
        we need to name and shame
        he was quickly invited by the us state department
        the internet freedom campaign
        is that really bad?
        we should be opportunistic also
        but the price is that the actual actions of the 100.000s of people who created the tipping point is not part of the narrative
        it is a way to de-politicize the revolution
        to not talk about class and the reasons why people revolted
        but to see it as a coincidental moment that coincided with the introduction of a certain technology
        this is why people are very angry
        irony is that the response to that anger is redefined as techno-distopian
        the people whoa re outspoken against this narrative are the internet techies
        people who really the designers who made that harsh critique
        the wikileaks came out 2 months before the uprising in tunisia
        so people said that wikileaks shows the people that their president is corrupt
        the same people who are writing about the arab spring
        are now writing about the arab winter
        and saying they are now all doomed
        
        your point about material conditions
        the material conditions include different forms of technology
        the oldest form of communication
        this is in homes, syria
        the fact that isps are state companies
        his maternal cousin (basher's) is the own of the isps XXXX
        people rediscovered and learned how to use pigeons
        we don't think about this as technology
        so that is the other form of material tech
        so what do you do when they cut the lines
        we think this is natural, but there are a lot of phantasmic examples that were invented on the spot
        the egyptian revolutions discovered that when the lines were cut
        in january/february, some of the activists, marxist and socialist, who write a lot about political economy
        they knew that not all lines can be cut ut
        the stock market cannot be shut
        so they started looking for those cables
        these were discovered on the spot
        using lamp polls to recharge phones
        and were shared with activists in the region
        that is one of the most understudied part of the revolutions
        the reason that thy were spreading by fire is another language
        which is so powerful
        like in latin america, which are connected by a basic language
        so that really helped
        
        
mauricio:
        there was an issue crawler
        to show where the issues came from
        how media was operating with that issue in another context
        when you talk about cyber-orientalism
        it is also a strategic ...
        when political problems change and they are no longer the subject of solidarity
        what happens is like a black hole
        i don't know what happened in tunisia or even with what is going on in syria
        we are dependent on the media collectives
        who go to these places
        and this is also a problem
        also the use of social networks is contradictory
        it is very useful in a way
        you can develop your own social network
        but they cannot scale up it doesn't work
        if it doesn't work who is going to use it
        a comment about why things appear and disappear from the net
        
        

jara: 
        we are going to share our anecdotes one after the other
        they dialogue very well
        we decided to share the questions and answers
        there is a connectivity issue now
        
        i wanted to show you fragments
        i will paste the links on the pad
        my anecdote is, somehow a mix of a fairytale and a tragedy
        it is about the activity of a collective of developers called komunes
        they are software developers
        you can even talk today about the tragedy of komunes
        i am going to start on the fairytale
        why is it beautiful and interesting as an anecdote
        it somehow collects all the axis that we took as a framework
        it is a collective practice, it is based on tech and it has some sneaky moments
        this is a collective practice for collective practice
        they are developers of software who are building tools for social movements
        their main activity as activists was to facilitate the organization and administrational issues/ administration of time, sharing documents
        for social movements, for other collectives which are not technology centered
        it is through the manifesto on their website
        that you can read paragraphs such as this
        "the komnes collective ...is for the coordination of grass roots collectives. komunes attempts by building tools to reach this goal."
        there is a tool that they built: kune.cc
        it is a social network that is oriented towards movements
        not the social in the sense of socializing
        these kinds of smooth relationships
        but social networking for movements
        so, also on their about
        they say, i selected this paragraph
        it fits with what was brought here
        today you depend on professional
        companies and techies that make websites
        like we used to depend on professional photographers
        if you want ... use kune
        use or participation in the creation are both options
        regrding temporality and kune
        i found it very interesting, in their website
        they have an entry of thursday august 4th 2011
        back to where miriyam was
        the 15m situation was very recent
        so, they publish this post
        new release of kune published, called 15m
        so they released a version of their social network on the occasion of 15m
        after some empirical knowledge and testing in the square itself
        in this sneaky moment they understood that a number of their items can be modified and fixed
        they saw the square as a beta-testin place
        they were so happy that they named the version 15m
        also in this post, you can see that they are technological reasons
        and what tools were developed
        
        if we zoom out a bit on their activity
        the collective of kune
        we were debating whether this moment was sneaky or not
        it shows or makes visible how certain crossings or political decisions are moments of continuity, path dependency or change
        in 2009, google started a project for collective editing called google waves
        they were working on it in a distributed way
        they were thinking of what we have to know as google drive
        this was the germ of that idea
        at some point, they abandoned the google wave project
        they freed the code, the apache foundation published it all, 
        so, this is an interesting moment, a sneaky moment
        kune as a project is born there, when the code of google waves opened up
        and this collective of people who worried in helping other social organizations with their tools
        they opened a whole page, and made it possible to intervene in the code with a political base
        
        this is what i wanted to say: the time is 15m as a sneaky moment for gathering together citizens
        that are located in the different points of technological expertise
        some of us closer to the direct practice: the user position
        some others closer to the techie position
        you are not an on/off engineer
        there are degrees, we cannot think any more on those closed identities
        especially if we are in these new politics that try to fix identities
        also in material terms
        if you engage in programming, or free wifi nodes, for facilitating an open connection
        you can do it three hours day
        for 15m temporality, this is a fairytale
        it is also a tragedy because they had an internal collective problematics
        they are at the moment debating the continuity or the durability of the project
        due to much older collecive/community issues
        apart from their advanced thinking about tools
        i wanted to end with the "tragedy of komunes"
        
femke:
        i made an offline taste of what this is about
        i liked you reading the mission statement
        we often collaborate with people who are not in the same space n many levels
        different technological, physical, financial environments
        first of all licences, to make explicit that you can reuse code for whatever you need
        but other types of documents are important
        
        i have been active in the free software community for creative work
        image processing to standards to artists projects
        to fonts, typography is a big part
        these communities are dispersed, they work across time zones over irc
        so, conferences, meetings play an important role
        they are a moment for people to physically to get together
        they are somehow demonstrations
        it is an opportunity to show your body
        and then people go away into their own space
        meetings are important moments
        
        they are politized and commercialized projects
        a few years ago, two things happened at the same time
        the community was growing older: more mature
        this maturity was starting to become visible in two ways
        trying to be more mature as in reliable and business friendly, approachable
        it also started to realize that there are large problems with the community
        the mozilla foundation saying if we won't diversify we will die
        if they don't act in widening the community, the project will stop at some point
        we haven't taken care of who is here, we need to do something
        
        the yearly gathering that would be 50 people who know each other
        they started to grow to 200 people
        but they started to have issues with scale
        we needed to start getting organized in different ways
        people were feeling that they couldn't thinking about hobby projects
        they wanted professional designers using their tools
        this is happening in the growing up of these communities
        at some point the python foundation, the organization that manages and governs the python software code
        that is used by hackers but also Facebook
        it is mainly us based
        started to come up with this document: the python community code of conduct
        in this document they state who are we, and how do we want to communicate to each other and the rest of the world
        if you read closely you will see that it is a business document, about limiting risks when a lot of people are coming together
        these meetings are awkward
        people that normally communicate through very poor communication
        basically text
        are now meeting in the flesh
        that is part of why it is important
        that is why it is also full of sneak moments: the sneaky moment festival
        to deal with this vulnerability/liability
        because python is afraid of liability
        these documents start to appear
        also of interest by feminist but also those who have business interests
        geek feminists for example transformed into the ada initiative
        and were promoting these documents to expose, deal with, prevent and respond to sexism in these kinds of situations
        but also python interest in making these events safe for business
        
        when on the mailing list, in which this community communicates with each other
        a long time organizer posted a message
        i asked for funding at the python foundation
        they require us to have a code of conduct
        python is exporting that document to other organizations
        the viral idea of free software is the way they treat a code of conduct
        and a flame war exploded
        aggressive and violent process
        there are archives of this: how did you dare to say this?
        if we respond to this: i thought i need to step out of this community
        i thought a code of conduct is a way to discuss these issues in a civil manner, to have a conversation
        i lobbied with people i knew in different communities to back me up
        i wrote a little message to the mailing list
        
        mail from femke: we will discuss this issue, we are taking it offline, and we are preparing the meeting (there are other things)
        michael schumacher responds, pre-arranged
        a community that is lazily anarchist, there is no membership, there is no leadership defined
        this was kind of a careful treading
        i will show you where it stopped
        we managed to make a document resembling the python type of reassurance
        which inserts some thoughts on difference and communication
        some issues that maybe are not solved but addressed
        these documents are mission statements, but they are also active documents at the moments of crisis
        so that the person that feels harassed can ask a community to act
        when you are harassed, you have to make a case on the spot
        these documents are active agents
        to give people the possibility to demand action
        this is hard
        so, from the feminist groups working on these things, one of the important things was to include actual concrete examples of what could go wrong
        if you think about it, if you don't do that, then the one that is harrassed, has to describe what is wrong
        to go from an abstract definition of conduct to the situation where you are having trouble to act
        in the meantime, the people responsible for writing the document were falling away
        the process was harder than people expected and became political
        then these people started to drop out of the conversation
        they wouldn't respond to emails, say they are busy
        so there i was, woman, non-tech, feminist, political, on my own with this document
        trying to make it work
        when this question came to include concrete issues
        mainly do your own homework
        i slipped a link to the geek feminism
        of accidents that have been happening in the free software community
        it is only judgmental in that is says what is an incident
        then the discussion started again
        how could i in this code of conduct refer only to feminist issue
        wasn't this much larger than gender
        shouldn't we think of more than gender
        why did i use geek feminism as a link
        and not everyone felt alright with the term
        this is 3 months ago
        and i haven't answered that question
        cause i didn't know what to do
        i knew none was going to pick it up
        i also didn't feel that it was my taks that i should make a list of anything that can go wrong
        it was a way to discuss and bring things to the table
        it became another dead end
        i don't know how to move on with
        this is another wish you were here
        is there another way to think through time and space
        that could help us hack such moments
        so that they don't become impossible to resolve
        
        this is the interesting part, this is all public
        there is no, my emotional response is not so legible but maybe that is good
        
berno:        
        this regime is openness in such a culture, in a complex architecture of organizations
        to what extent is this being questions in face of challenges...
        this is also an issue f vulnerability
        is the security discussion or issues go with a certain closure
        of this sort of discussion
        
        best example: if you put this all online, is there an issue raised that this could weaken the organization
        certain kind of closure as a strategy to disguise strategies
        collective privacy, the privacy of a movement
        this community has been ignorant of surveillance
        cyberattacks, surveillance and all of this
        is this paradigm of these open communities, is this being questioned?
        
femke:
        there are many things to say to that
        ada organization plays the game of exposure
        they will out sexist behavior
        it is important that this happens
        but it can completely disrupt communities who are not used to speak about bullies
        
        or if there is sexual language, it is banned
        i think that is really wrong
        talk about how you talk about this
        that is a part
        i am not unhappy that this is in the open
        it allows me to talk to you about this
        maybe as some point this will be useful
        it is scary to talk about these things that matter for me
        again the openness: the fact that it is in the public
        if it goes over a border, i can call in others
        if it is on a private mailing list in a private space
        in this specific situation, i am not unhappy that this is publicly available
        

jara:
        this is another comment
        i am interested in understanding code as an infrastructure
        and not just informatics code
        but also this kind of code
        if you stick to this nice definition 
        of infrastructure being invisible
        taking care with its invisibility
        code of conducts are very interesting as infrastructure
        they are technologies that are constructed collectively
        it is very weird to notice in anecdotes like this
        how hierarchies work
        for putting one code over another
        why is the code of conduct under the code of python
        why is this hierarchy happening? 
        do we have to deal with this in this way?
        is this politics going on, in which certain codes are over other codes
        
        
mauricio:
        i think in that way, web communities have a long road of learning
        on how to organize themselves
        and also how they are embedded in a new way of doing politics in organizations
        i saw this problem in the, with the community i am working with
        they are more oriented, business oriented, and, they sometimes
        they don't read the newspaper
        in that way, technology becomes the only factor that create a self-consensus
        but that consensus is very opaque
        we use python, we are part of python comunity
        i don't code, so i am not part of the python community
        so what does it mean to be part of the python community
        convergence without a consensus
        that we can set up rules, practices in a space that creates a community
        but we need to debate about this
        sometimes tech plays this role
        that we become a part of this community
        you need to go through conflicts
        the conflicts create a public situation
        not only open
        openness and publicness are not the same
        there is something going on there
        sometimes the conflict is a key to create publicness
        otherwise it is too much encrypted
        communities are mainly formed by experts
        if you are not an expert on python
        you are not part of the community
        how do you create diversity in these 


femke:
        for whom is something a conflict
        who has the right to define when the conflict happens 
        conflict for me was clearly not a conflict for others
        so it is, i am trying to think my way back to the matrix
        to moments of conflict
        
crypto currency person:
        the hacker community is very exclusive
        i was in a meeting in bologna last month
        i cannot read code
        but i do software design, so i can speak with them
        you cannot read code: so we treat you like peace of shit
        so i say i am going to fight back
        and when you fight back, they start to respect you
        this is an experience
        on code of conduct
        women were 10percent
        no colored black guy apart from me
        my conclusion is that hackers become hackers because they have difficulties entertaining human relations
        and when they see humans they get scared
        i don't know, i see the symptoms
        it is their strength and their weakness
        they know so much, they are so jealous of what they know that they don't want to share it
        
        
jara:
        brief comment
        about these social situations
        complicated relationships
        especially geek communities
        this si one of the main reasons of the tragedy of komunes
        it has a lot to do with what seda is proposing to do now
        and i will explain why
        joe freeman's text the tyranny of structurelessness
        not having structures, not having over organizing
        we are not seeing the structure, but they are there
        we are not seeing them
        they are that code, those infrastructures that are working
        that work in a perverse way
        through friends that take decisions
        class divisions
        by people who don't have to work: who can spend more time on political action
        she wants back the political structures, because there is a certain amount of tyranny in structurelessness
        that has a lot to do with physical meetings like this
        of course, there dis time with the mic
        there are different ways of being present
        we have been doing this experiment of thinking together
        we brought this question, and the three axes
        we would like those who haven't taken their part, we invite you do to so.
        

hamish:
        i was thinking of a matrix
        of how the activist and the tech people work together
        tech and activists on an x-y axis
        savvy in tech and activism
        or activism savvy, but not so techy
        etc
        how do these groups relate
        this si a spectrum
        i am maybe here
        my work is political in a soft way
        it brings people together
        i use Facebook and google docs
        my engagement feels quite trivial
        but maybe that is very common place
        do i just follow the wash of these wider discussions
        i am aware that, it is useful for me to use Facebook
        i am aware that directs the work i make
        i feel limited
        how do we deal with this, which might be the majority
        
        
miriyam:
        this is really important
        the time of revolutionary momentum
        what happens in a short time is that 
        people move from -x/-y to x/y/-y
        people who were not active at all that are all of a sudden activists
        and post-revolution maybe they go deep in the -x/-y position
        and they become more alienated
        
mauricio:
        this happens with a lot of professions in the past
        we can put architects, politicians, technicians
        what we have seen in the last decades, sooner or later you will have to find ways to speak between the different positions
        that involves conflict
        it will not be that technology will be waiting for you
        in architecture there were 40 years of plans
        
        
ruth:
        the reference to architecture, comparingarchitecture to code
        might help in conceiving of problems
        especially in problems where there is a show of transparency which is real in a certain level
        but when using those kinds of spaces
        it really is a show
        the space exists, we can dialogue, but there is a problem
        it is there to stop any actual resolution
        it is there to enforce the hierarchy
        it is incredibly present in the art world
        the institutional critique to make everyone feel better about themselves
        i always had the illusion, with the internet in the 90s
        that there was a possibility for new spaces
        and time and time again we keep getting shut down
        i am not going anywhere with this
        other than that there needs to be a space that is really transparent to build the code yourself
        it simply must be possible
        yesterday we kept on coming up against the argument: that is another planet
        i don't understand why that should be the case
        those are the solutions that we can gradually start coming to
        
madina:
        it is not my subject
        i should maybe say something
        i was lucky, i have a lot of students who are activists and into programming and hacking
        so i don't see a problem between these things
        we have this media impact activist art festival
        i got 10 messages from them before the internet was cut
        one of the students is precisely that
        he is a hacker, he has been prosecuted
        he is a wonderful guy and an artist
        recently i visited him in st petersburg
        i found my students in three years
        people also in ... were first using Facebook 
        and now we don't
        there are people called hamsters who are paid like internet trolls
        so a lotos people stopped using social networks because of all the fake messages
        if we want to have an assembly
        we don't use facbeook and we have our own codes
        even if we use email
        we don't say things explicitly
        we have problems but it is solvable
        we will have more people who will be activists and techies
        and there is this problem that we discussed today and yesterday
        we see people who do social engineering and economics, and don't think in terms of value
        this is an old human problem
        kurt vonnegut writes exactly about that
        the guy who invented the bomb
        he is making houses for cats
        he cannot think of what this could lead to
        i learned a lot
        
christoph:
        i had to think about, which is very trivial
        the tragedy of the structurelessness
        community getting a certain scale
        certain values, and mirror
        a common reference
        what a constitution is on the level of a country
        some kind of agreement that would serve in terms of trouble
        it has to be some form of superior level
        that at the same time
        we have to also think of the most trivial level of this
        a couple, no matter how much they love each other will have problem with washing up
        being thrown back into dirty business
        communities in the internet, have very precise and specific problem
        a certain kind of code, the res t is not talked about, only when conflict comes up
        that is the problem, i had to think about dishwashing
        take care of the idea that everybody washes their own dishes
        we are not able to do it continuously
        we are not busy with this because we have better things to do
        we have to deal with the dirty dishes somehow
        
anna:
        community: this homogeneity
        in the good sense of paradox and contradiction
        how to deal with contradiction and difference within, to be efficiently
        not to have the tyranny of the structurelessness
        to be able to do something together within the contradiction, paradox, conflict
        how to keep the conflict alive
        i am happy that you are not community
        
        
christoph:
        tyranny and tragedy of sctructurelessness
        imaginary of the open internet
        that we have to come back to some old fashioned ways of agreeing
        that we maybe had the impression that we could escape this
        
valentina:
        maybe i am naive
        i am in the third quarter (-x/-y)
        is it possible to conceive of a structure that is not rule based
        we had red... who is a historian of sexuality
        once we were discussing ... is underestimated
        of course you exchange data
        but to film and what we saw
        we can maybe another way of gathering around things which are not around rules
        or rules that can be on purpose vague and generative of a question and what does it mean
        rules that always ask to the human being to talk about it
        rules that will bring together attention and energy
        that is not about the before and after
        like the hackers that need some human interaction
        
mauricio:
        reference to living and thinking together
        one of the best methods to achieve self-organization is building
        that is why the first part of the project was concentrated on that
        if you want to think about what is living together
        like the story of the babel tower
        they could not finish the building
        there are architects using open source as an example
        how urban planning can be open
        but building: what happens is very hierarchical
        architecture is related to arche, which is also the commander
        it is about hierarchy
        so it is whoever you go, people will agree with you
        it is a powerful metaphor of bring people together
        to give people rules, to organize ourselves that is very difficult
        it is not easy, the set of tasks
        that we need to distribute
        
technologies also work with a regime of erotics
it is crossed with ethics
if you talked about the organized body
or an organized body of technology
you start to look for differences
the regime of fidelity in the property sense
i am faithful to this system, to this tech, to this way of organizing the world
how about loyalty as a much more promiscuous way of relating but more durable
let's thing wider
treason and appeal

we looked at three quarters of the spectrum, but not the complete thing
are situations of hackers/activists in other countries different... gender balance/racial balance is not an issue??? resources